Had a Frustrating Discussion with Mom...

by tenyearsafter 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  journey-on

  tenyearsafter.....I know it is heartbreaking when family members do this on a regular basis. She must truly love you if she hasn't starting shunning you thus far. Be glad of that!

  The Watchtower Society is a sub culture and, like most cults, have done an excellent job indoctrinating their followers. The older witnesses, like your mother, should be pitied in a way. IMO, they are truly brainwashed and this is a seriously harmful condition to be in mentally and spiritually. Why? Because, like being hypnotized, there have been triggers mentally implanted to stop them from hearing with hearing ears or seeing with seeing eyes. In other words, their ability to think clearly and rationally has been hindered or taken away completely and replaced with JW doctrines. They look at it as a theocratic struggle every time they talk to you, their family members that have left the organization.

  They equate leaving the org as a death sentence, and when they talk to you, they feel fear and frustration that you have chosen to leave. Rationalizing that they are doing God's will by cutting you off, helps some of them deal with this fear and frustration.

  They rationalize this by using various scriptures. (They have about 15 - 20 that have actually become memes, imo.)

  They use Ephesians 6: 10-13 as their excuse or justification. It is one of the scriptures the Society uses to program their behavior and response to conversations like yours.

  "Put on the complete suit of armor from God that you may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil...."

  "....take up the complete suit of armor from God, that you may be able to resist in the wicked day and, after you have done all things thoroughly, to stand firm."

  So, you see, tenyearsafter, you're from the Devil and must be resisted .... she must button up tightly her complete suit of armor against you. But she still loves you. Speaking as a mother, just tell her: "I still love you even if you are brainwashed and that won't change." Then give her a big hug.
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  diamondiiz

  I told her that she would be disfellowshipped if she didn't immediately recant her belief..

  That's not true, it depends on BOE. I know that for a fact because I was never DF when I told them that. Only way this would become a imminent problem if she was telling others that she disagreed with 1914 as a date for Jesus' return which to elders would be causing divisions and they would df her on that basis but not in not believing in 1914 (depending on BOE).

  It's good that you still have a talking relationship with your mom as many have lost that.
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  skeeter1

  jThe following is a letter an ex-JW had to send. She was kind enough to send it[ to me. ***************************************************************8 You have tried your hardest to convince me in the way you are convinced by the Jehovah's Witnesses. I don't know exactly how to tell you this, without hurting your feelings. I do not believe as you do, and my beliefs are based on careful study and evaluation. I get frustrated at your attempts, and I send back information discussing how I feel about the Watchtower and the misgivings I have. But, you think this is more opportunity to try to convince me otherwise. You do not squarely address my concerns or valid points. I feel like cardboard. And, I do not know how to politely tell you to stop. I don't want to hurt you. I understand that the Conventions have parts on being bloodguilty if one doesn't try to witness to family members, first and foremost. The example given is of Noah and the Ark, closing several days before the rain. That must be a very scary thought for you. I think that you can honestly say to yourself that you have tried your very best. I think it is time to put it in Jehovah's hands. Please give it a rest, and put me on your "Do not call back" list. I am very aware of every change that happens inside the Watchtower and get run downs of upcoming changes and secret editions and books. I have studied it alot, and have come to a conclusion that it is not part of my spiritual journey at this time. I ask that you speak with a trusted elder, who may be able to help you. You can give this letter to him so he can understand my viewpoint. I hope that we can have a relationship, outside of talking about the Society and its interpretations. As of right now, you only want the relationship to be a one-way monologue about your religion. There is little interest in me otherwise. I think the new Elder's book mentions it is best for JW family members to have non-spiritual type discussions with nonbelieving family members. It is a way to safeguard your own spiritual health. Can we try following this advise?
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  DesirousOfChange

  My mother is somewhat housebound, so she stays glued to the TV all day and gobbles up any "bad" news as supporting the "things are getting worse" proofs.

  At 80 years of age, it is very important for your mother to find support for what she has believed and dedicated her life to for all these years. If she were unable to do that, she would face the reality that it was all for nothing.

  Very sad. But perhaps almost as sad for you to burst her bubble. I'm not saying you should choose that way of life, but I'd be cautious of destroying everything she has lived for in the past and has to live for in her few years remaining until The End (of her life) -- at 80, she's right when she says IT is near.

  DOC
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  lifestooshort

  DOC ... you bring up a interesting thought. Is it really better for her to go to her grave in ignorance? For her to become reality based in her thinking she would have to go through the painful process of disillusionment first. Like we all did. I am glad to be living in reality and not in bull****. But that might not be true of an 80 year old woman.
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  AudeSapere

  DOC and Lifestooshort make a good point.

  You wrote: It is certainly a slippery slope to see how far you can take the discussion before you are labeled an apostate.

  It's mighty slippery. And oh! so easy to take that little step over the line!!

  I think we all understand your frustration. It's so nice that you both still have a workable relationship.

  I'm just a little jealous. Probably other posters are, too.

  Maybe just reassure her that you are 'good' with Jehovah. And let her rest easy and not fret so much about your eternal life.

  -Aude.
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  tenyearsafter

  Thanks to all for the suggestions and comments. I have resigned myself to the fact that she will never change her mind or see my side of the issue. I am glad she doesn't shun me, and I guess I should be grateful for that. Let's just hope she has gotten this out of her system for a while!
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  Guest with Questions

  tenyearsafter: never say never. My mom was a die hard witness, truly believing in this organization, stating that if the organization wasn't the truth then God didn't exist. She was constantly trying to convert us.

  It was through a difficult situation a few years ago that she was faced with the truth. It took her a while but today she is happy, enjoying her life. She still says that there was some good in it, but admits that it is a cult. She gave her disassociation letter to the hall a year ago. It still amazes me that she is out after almost 40 years. She is 81.
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  flipper

  TEN YEARS AFTER- I totally understand how frustrating it can be to discuss any doubts about the JW organization we have with JW relatives. I think you handled that really well. Even though your mom won't admit that you were making her think about things - believe me, some of it may have registered in her subconsciousness. What is said cannot be put out of the mind entirely.

  My JW mom & dad are in their mid 80's and have been " in " the Witnesses since 1951. When my mom turned 80 several years ago I asked her, " Mom, did you ever think you would make it to 80 in THIS system of things, or did you think you'd be in the Paradise by now ? " She stated honestly, " No, I thought I'd be in the Paradise by now. " I told her I knew how she feels and that I remembered being a teenager in the 1970's with fellow JW's telling me , " Mr. Flipper, you are so lucky because you'll never have to raise children in THIS system of things ! " Then I continued saying, " Well mom, here I am 48 yrs.old and I have 3 adult children in their early to mid 20's ! " She said, " you certainly do ! ". But as if she couldn't cknowledge it - she stated , " well, we still see bad things happening in the news and things getting worse in the world. " So- I decided to switch subjects because I know my parents have hung their hopes on an alleged " Paradise " for so long- it would destroy them to think that what they've been hopingfor for 60 years is a complete waste of time in being deceived. So we talked about family things . It's so sad to see old people rotting away in this mind control cult . Another reason your mom cannot see things clearly, like my mom she is under the influence of WT mind control. But very well done by you guy ! Good job. Peaceout, Mr. Flipper
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  Indian Larry

  Both of my parents are 80 as well. The were both raised in the organization. Of course they worry about me constantly. I have to agree with the comments made above. At this point in your mom's life it is probably too late. If you are successful in opening her eyes to the truth about the "truth", the pain she will go through in the form of cognitive dissonence would be tremendous. In addition she would have to either spend the rest of her life "faking it" at the hall or she could also risk losing every friend she has ever had. For me that pain has been continuing for over 10 years now, I do have conversations with my parents but I don't really try to "convert" them.

  My personal goal with my elderly parents is to walk a very fine line. I want them to realize that I do have valid reasons for staying away from the organization, but I don't want to ruin the little bit of time they have left. Instead I try to get across to them that Jehovah can read hearts and he will read mine as well. I would hate for them to be on their death bed and be convinsed that they will never see their son again.

  It is a fine line but so far it has been working.