Theocratic Warfare = when the WTBTS lies, is deceitful, acts fraudulently, revises its history, etc. ----> Leads to God's Approval (according to them)
Lying = when you or I do the same thing ----> Leads to Disfellowshipping
Theocratic warfare
by marriedtoajw 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Morbidzbaby
Agreed with OUTLAW... A JW spouse (or ex spouse) can stretch and twist the truth, even going so far as to make things up, especially when it comes to child custody. Don't believe me? Check out the Preparing for Child Custody Cases packet that is given to JW parents going through divorce with an UBM.
Several JW parents have accused the UBM of "abuse" of the children, which the courts are obliged to investigate. Several have also lost custody or contact with their children because of this. JW parents are encouraged to practice Theocratic Warfare in order to make SURE they get custody and their children are raised as JW's...breeding more for the ranks.
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diamondiiz
Theocratic Warefare may take place more on the wts level than at JW level. It basically means withholding information from those not deserving. Is it lying? Partially true, but I don't know too many people who don't do this. I'm sure everyone here does it. Many think they are holier than thou, which includes JWs.
Example:
- During war, "enemy" is looking for wts publications, you are asked if you have them, you can imagine they are asking you if you have them on you so if you say no, you're not lying since the publications are in your house.
- Would you give your child blood? "Jw live healthy lives, we don't get drunk, we don't smoke, nor do we take drugs, we view our bodies as sacred and we want best medical treatment available for us and our kids. We accept many treatments involving blood fractions."
- Will only JWs survive Armageddon? "Bible says that only Jehovah and Jesus can read hearts, we can't judge who will or won't survive."
When asking JWs question you have to be very specific and demand yes or no answer. Even with that, many JWs don't know their own teachings enough to tell a difference if they're saying the truth or if they think they are saying the truth. This is an example with "Will only JWs survive." Many JWs think that Jehovah will actually read people's heart and they will be judged accordingly while wts publication plainly state that only JWs will survive - after all that's why they go out recruiting, isn't it? Many JWs try not to lie and many try hard to live a moral life similar to many church goers.
When you ask if UBM can trust a JW? Well, I don't see why not. They're not much different than others so if the person is a liar it really doesn't make a difference if he is a JW or not, he will lie. I know wts deceives JWs like they do to others for their own benefit. JWs generally don't even know it so if they tell you a lie out of ignorance, it's not like they're lying to you since they don't know any better. There is a difference between lying and saying something out of ignorance.
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truthseeker1969
Try using theocratic warfare against them and they hate it.
I have done it and they totally hate it, because I neither lied nor told the truth.
In a judicial meeting they want truth but they can lie, example. "we understand you were seen coming from a gay bar"
The reply "i was never in a gay bar" technically true as there is no such thing as a bar with a sexual preference untrue because it is by definition a bar frequented by gay people.
Not something that actually happened, just an example of how they can use technicalities to twist the truth
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truthseeker1969
Wannabe free.....more damage is done to Jehovahs org. becasue they lie and it is obvious they are lying.
the recent statement that they are free to talk to disfellowshipped people was laughed at in the media and by rank and file Jw's who openly said they had stretched the truth just too far this time.
Lies are lies are lies no such thing as theocratic warfare.
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wha happened?
I've seen it used in commitee matters. I knew of a group of kids that had gotten themselves into a bit of trouble. However, the kids were all tight lipped. The elders then would approach each one individually and state that all the others have confessed and will not be df'd.
None of them spoke out.
So really, it's just an excuse to use any method to further their means.
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carla
jw's are taught to lie to ubm's, it is a simple fact. You don't trust the jw spouse to not try to indocrinate them. You must protect your kids yourself and sometimes staying in the house/relationship is the best way to do that. You don't trust that they will allow blood for you or your children in the case of emergency, you must take steps now to protect yourself and your children.
If you can help it you do not leave your children alone with them without you for extended periods of time, if they go shopping you with, they go for a walk you go with and so on. Does this mean you give up any life you have and/or recreational things of your own? yes. Protect your kids. Teach them about the wt/cults if possible. Do not allow jw literature to be lying about the house. The house should be a neutral zone. If the jw insists upon leaving jw crap out then it is only fair to leave out anti jw literature. If they insist on bringing the kids to a kh every other weekend then you take the kids somewhere else every other weekend be something fun or checking out the worlds religions. You have one chance to protect your kids from this wretched cult. It will be unpleasant at first making the same demands that they do (wanting to bring kids to kh/keeping them out) but eventually it settles down and leaving the kids out completely is the best thing for everybody. Kids figure out that mom is in a weird cult/religion and dad hates it and one day the kids see that mom & dad still love each other or at least can keep it together for them. It can get better but it will never be the same pre jw days.
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diamondiiz
jw's are taught to lie to ubm's, it is a simple fact.
I don't know what congregation you went to, I know that I didn't hear anything about lying to ubm from the platform. There is a difference of lying and following one's stupid beliefs. There is a difference between lying and keeping beliefs to oneself. Also personalities within the cult are also found on the outside. Because JWs' beliefs don't allow them to have certain blood product, which may stop them from accepting such treatment, it doesn't necessarily mean they would automatically fight for UBM or a child in a divided household not to get blood. If the house is divided, both parents have the right and responsibility to instruct the children. If one parent allows a JW to indoctrinate the child in the way of the wts then whos fault is it? While I would not advise someone to go and get married to a JW or a believing df JW, there are many marriages that work and seem happy and kids grow up never going to KH and all that. If a JW mate is overbearing the other partner may need to rethink their marriage but that is because there is a crazy person in a relationship, be it JW or Mormon or a Muslim.....
Let's not confuse crazy JW with a "normal" JW, and I understand there are many crazy JWs out there but there is a lot of crazy people in the world in general as well. While beliefs affect people to do stupid things, and these may magnify the individual's stupidity the witnesses are not taught to lie to ubm! It is important for ubm to discuss with a JW various scenarios that may affect ubm or their kids due to JW beliefs within the household and the ubm should speak their mind.
I don't remember going and lying to my family who were non-JWs. What exactly did I have to hide? I am curious how people here while JW knowingly lied to their mates or non-JW family members.
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carla
I was there when they instructed my jw (who was not even a jw yet) to lie to me. I heard it myself, they didn't see where I was when I heard it. They do lie when it suits them or withold information. I suggest you take a look a their own literature about lying starting with the definition of 'lie' in the Aid book.
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Band on the Run
I'm not certain of the details but I believe Rutherford and Franz told a judge that they would like to protect the Society. This isn't exactly a way to win over a judge who is hearing your case. Most people would insist that the truth comes first. It is part of the official transcript.
Very few Jehovah's Witneses know the actual administrative work behind the Society. When I was active, my local KH might know the name of the president at the time. A large segment would not even know that. Most Witnesses, even shown the transcript, would never believe that Rutherford would lie under any circumstances. Because access to Bethel is limited, the rank and file never hears the internal debates or knows the personality disputes. I think of Obama's administration and Congress. People pay lobbyist big money for staff directories, to know exactly when to press. You need read only a few newspaper to stay in the public loop. There is no JW beat. It is in the dark with no transparencies.
They present themselves as monolithic with no dissent. This is humanly impossible. The Wizard of Oz is a great example.