The Crux of the Matter For Me

by MrDarkKnight 23 Replies latest jw experiences

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  MrDarkKnight

  It has been very interesting and beneficial reading the posts and comments of everyone on the board since I joined back in June of this year. The recent efforts of Mankeli have made me consider exactly what it is I have issue with when it comes to the teachings of the WTBS and Jehovah's Witnesses. I have stated my background before: 38 years in the organization, 10 years at Bethel in responsible positions, 15 years an elder with Circuit and District responsibilities and parts on Circuit and Disctrict Assemblies, a former member of the Hospital Liason Committee and a Presiding Overseer for 5 years. I am not a novice, and at this point cannot be convinced by emotion or by denigration or by ostracism.

  Having worked with the leadership of the WTBS I believe that they are sincere in their motives and beliefs. Most JWs I have served are sincere in their motives and beliefs. However, I believe that what they believe is based on interpretation by a self proclaimed Faithful and Discreet Slave with a self proclaimed Governing Body and that their beliefs raise many questions. My issues with Jehovah's Witnesses are simple and to date have not been answered:

  1. What scripture(s) SPECIFICALLY supports the assertion that in 1918 YHWH chose the IBSA as his sole channel of communication?

  2. What scripture(s) supports the assertion that there has always beens a Faithful and Discreet Slave and Governing Body?

  3. What scripture (s) support the assertion that the selection of the 144,000 was started in the first centurey, progressed over the 2,000 years since then, accelerated after 1914, continues today and will continue until the end comes?

  4. If the FDS is so important, why is the GB not interested in the NAMES of those who claim to be anointed? Why are they NOT consulted when the FDS is doing its thing? Why are men considered to be elders and servants raked over the coals but anyone claiming to be of the anointed is blindly believed without ANY verification?

  5. Why do we not know the names and qualifications of the New World Translation committee?

  Everything I was taught from the age of 7 until I left a year ago was governed by assumptions. I assumed that there was and FDS. I assumed that it had a GB. I assumed that the 144,000 teaching was correct. I assumed that the New World Translation Committee was qualified, knew the languages involved and made an error free translation. I assumed that that NWT was correct in every way and without dispute.

  Now I know that none of these assertions can be proved. All other teachings are based on these assumptions. If these assumptions are not accurate then however sincere the WTBS may be, they are just another organized religion, full of sincere people, taking a stab at promoting their beliefs.

  I challenge Mankeli or anyone else to argue these issues and convince me that my conerns are not valid.

  MDK
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  cptkirk

  please don't dignify mankeli...it makes me wonder about some of you, that you can't discern he is pathological. i think it might be that some of you are older, and don't understand how to figure people out through text.

  i do have one question for you darkknight, you're obviously up in age based on the history you state. seems like a strange alias for an older guy? mrdarkknight? sounds like something a young kid would name himself.

  anyway i have a question for you. you were a presiding overseer for 5 years? one thing i want to know...something that really surprised me that i was told shortly before i left ...was talking to a guy about a situation where they weren't going to let a guy get baptized because of something he was involved with...and he started telling me about how the GB got involved with this situation...he went on to tell me the GB is actually involved a lot more than i guess most people realize...(the guy telling me this didn't seem surprised, he thought i was weird because i didn't know this)...but anyway he told me that the GB prays over all elder appointments? if you were a PO you must know the answer to this? and the fact that the GB plays an active role with the BOE's in any given cong? this was all shocking news to me, and i want to know if this is true.
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  Gayle

  On point 4. Surely they have all the names of elders in congs., names of pioneers, and records of pubs. with all their names (at in their Kingdom Halls). Surely, they have 'all' the names of their 20,000+ names of their ordained ministers staff in their branches.

  However, ones of their very primary teachings, about their FDS are nameless. And there are only 11,202 (according to 2010 Service Report). So obviously there couldn't and isn't any communication with them, since they don't even have a list, by their own admission. Jehovah is suppose to be communicating with the FDS to direct His people, as is the claim. Yet the GB don't even know them, no clue of a list, how could they (GB) be communicating with the FDS?!

  Since the WTS are a big boaster of their conventions with thousands in attendance or even connecting into assembly halls now-a-days, via technical communications, why wouldn't this so-called FDS class have a big special meeting/convention for this 'special' group, ever?!

  It is absurd, isn't it!
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  MrDarkKnight

  @cptkirk...I don't mean to dignify Mankeli...he is obviously a JW apologist...and I am an old guy (LOL!!) but I love Batman...misunderstood by those who love him...operating in the shadows...mysterious...but deep inside a conflicted man who just wants to do the right thing! And I am kid aht heart, LOL!!! Regarding the GB's involvement in the appointment of servants and elders the GB IS NOT directly involved. They delegate this to the Service Department in the US or the Branch Office in foreign countries. Anyone who says otherwise in misinformed...sincere, but misinformed and ignorant (I mean this in a nice way.)
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  MrDarkKnight

  @gayle...what you stated is my point...it is absurd.

  Even more absurd is this: I decided to write on one page the basic beliefs of JWs. When I was done and read it I was amazed at how much of it is completely based on assumptions! So much of what is passed of as doctrine is in fact interpretation and to the unitiated absurd!

  I feel so foolish!
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  cptkirk

  doesn't surprise me. they are all nuts, just different flavors of nuts. btw i can see why you left darkknight, you are way to lighthearted and congenial to be a jw. don't you realize the enemy is everywhere!?!!?
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  startingover

  For years I have said that 607 is my main issue. But really #4 deserves that spot. How absurd indeed.

  Great thread BTW, it really lays out the main issues in a few short paragraphs.
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  MrDarkKnight

  @cptkirk...As a JW you are conditioned to believe that all non-JWs are evil, wicked, dishonest and hurtful people. In the past year I have learned that most of the people I deal with are kind and helpful, understanding and generous. When I needed a place to live and a job so-called "worldly" people jumped in and helped me. It helped me to see how insular the life of a JW lifer is!
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  thetrueone

  Your concerns are quite sincere and valid when evaluating the core structure of the JWS and its own self identifying procalamtions.

  You've had a long history within the organization, which has been deep and entwined which places no question to your

  knowledge of the organization's doctrines. The all encomapssing true and honest answer to why the WTS. made those assumptions you spoke of

  is that the WTS. started out not as a organization of well study bible theology and endeavored to publicly spread this knowledge about publicly,

  rather it was more about a singular mans ( C Russell ) expressive thoughts and beliefs which he promoted by giving public talks and distributing

  literature.

  The other part to this story comes in when he passed away, leaving a good portional amount of money to the publishing organization which

  he eventuality became the chief editor and President of. ( WTS.) This vacancy was observed by a lawyer whom he used in other business dealings

  ( J Rutherford ) and he was all for taking control of the publishing organization for himself as an opportunistic power seeker.

  Most if not all of this organization's self devised doctrines, including the self proclaimed FDSL/GB/The End times/ the soon to come Armageddon, all

  come from the indentured intension to attract the publics attention toward their organization and its published literature.

  One could look at it like self promoting marketing strategies. Adjoining these set strategies is the procurement of power and control for and by the top

  leading executives, handed to them graciously by god himself. Notably these personal endeavors also establish a basis for financial support .

  Kingdom Halls are really instructional training centers where people are purposely indoctrinated with the WTS. litature and doctrines,

  expressively with the intension to further spread more of the organizations literature, again to further enhance the organization's power

  and control over people.

  There is a calculating play of exploitation on part of the WTS. that can not be denied, concerning its proliferation of its published works.
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  cptkirk

  there is a lot of irony in regard to my time as a jw. when i was in my late teens, i would go hang out with the jw group ages 18-25....these were smart people, straight a students, people smart...and they were considered "spiritual"....the real irony is, what i saw these guys doing....you know, letting some worldy people hang out with us sometimes, watching some movies that weren't totally correct or whatever, letting beards, side-burns, goatees grow on weekends....under-age drinking on weekends etc etc etc etc etc etc, etc etc, etc etc ETC!

  THE IRONY IS THIS: THESE WERE THE "TOP OF THE LINE WITNESSES" , GOOD LOOKING SMART LEARNED THREE FOUR LANGUAGES TO PREACH IN OTHER COUNTRY ELDER AT AGE 28 ETC...

  yet by the standards they supposedly impose at the top, all of these guys should be looked down on and borderline kicked out of the org. i think eventually they will all wake up and leave, i havent talked to any of them in years...but i dont see how anyone with a brain can stay in this religion, it's utter hypocrisy.

  i was hated toward the end because i dared to do stuff like this openly for everyone to see, my reasoning was , 'look everyone does this stuff why should i hide it?' if you hate me, you have to hate pretty much everyone under the age of 60. thats why i said the ultimate fate of this org is to be a religion for people over 65. then once that occurs, the next step is for it to disappear forever. goodbye farewell amen.

  HAHAHA you know what i just thought of that is SOOO FUNNY....if the guys at the top actually ever did what I DID, think about it? imagine if they said to the "flock" , "you know we have made a lot of mistakes, and we made false prophecy regarding generations and all that, we are so sorry we made these mistakes, oh and that United Nations thing we are soooo sorry about that guys, we want to turn over a new leaf and take a different approach to shepherding, a much more pragmatic approach"...guess what? the "flock" would probably do the same thing they did to me, they would say FU and hate them and god knows what they would do after that.

  the irony gets too thick, the greatest sin, the most awful and abominable sin in "the truth", is to tell the truth.