I think that deliver and saviour are two different things...
Proof of Jesus' Deity using the NWT - One Simple Scripture
by GOrwell 39 Replies latest jw experiences
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GOrwell
Agreed - it is pretty difficult to discuss the divinity/deity of Jesus without the Trinity, and I assume once you accept the deity, it would follow you would accept the Trinity (for the vast majority of people; there are some who accept Jesus' deity without accepting the Trinity).
Since there's always been I've always been curious of who the earliest of Christians believed Jesus to be. Outside of the Book of John, which was written 60+ years (much more time for a proper mythology to develop) after Jesus' death, this example from the book of Luke is a pretty strong indication of who the 'common' person believed Jesus to be.
It is interesting that Freddy never caught this link. You're right Ding, not much slipped by him, but this sure seemed to. As mentioned, other translations simply use the word "So," instead of accordingly. But accordingly has such a stronger connotation to it - the man was asked to do A, and he did exactly as he was told by doing B.
This scripture is also a great one to use if a JW comes to your door, as 99% of them are not going to be familiar with it, and they will do a double, or maybe even a triple take. If you're lucky, it might even stun them into silence. The key is to focus on the word accordingly.
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PSacramento
Agreed - it is pretty difficult to discuss the divinity/deity of Jesus without the Trinity, and I assume once you accept the deity, it would follow you would accept the Trinity (for the vast majority of people; there are some who accept Jesus' deity without accepting the Trinity).
I am not a fan of the trinity doctrine.
Since there's always been I've always been curious of who the earliest of Christians believed Jesus to be. Outside of the Book of John, which was written 60+ years (much more time for a proper mythology to develop) after Jesus' death, this example from the book of Luke is a pretty strong indication of how the the 'common' believed Jesus to be.
Paul wrote befoe John and his were soem of the most Christological writings we have.
It is interesting that Freddy never caught this link. You're right Ding, not much slipped by him, but this sure seemed to. As mentioned, other translations simply use the word "So," instead of accordingly. But accordingly has such a stronger connotation to it - the man was asked to do A, and he did exactly as he was told by doing B.
This scripture is also a great one to use if a JW comes to your door, as 99% of them are not going to be familiar with it, and they will do double, or maybe even a triple take. If you're lucky, it might even stun them into silence. The key is to focus on the word accordingly.
If a JW takes Isaiah 9 to be a prophecy about Jesus, they would be hard pressed to explain the issues of Jesus being called God and Eternal Father.
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TTWSYF
Good point Terry. I am assuming that you are speaking about no original manuscripts available. It certainly would be inspirational to view the original writings of Moses.
So, what are we left with? How about the oral tradition? You may know that the ancient Jews didnt have any scriptures in their homes. They only HEARD the scriptures at the synagogs. Them learned men would commit these teachings to the parchment..... Just like the early Christians.... After that, it must be taken on faith. Faith that God would protect his word from corruption. guided by the Holy Spirit. That's why people of faith hold that the Gospels of Mark, Luke, John and Mathew are legit and the Gospels of Judas, Mary and Peter are not.
And let's be real. Anyone who refers to the bible as the true word of God does so because God has given him that faith. It is indeed a gift.
I mean, who else would believe such nonsense?!.....besides these crazy posters [including myself] that is.
dc
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Londo111
Hmm...just looked up Judges 3:15 and 1 Samuel 23:5 in other translations and it indeed said deliver, not saviour. In Hebrew, were the words different from what is found in Isaiah 43:11?
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PSacramento
Hmm...just looked up Judges 3:15 and 1 Samuel 23:5 in other translations and it indeed said deliver, not saviour. In Hebrew, were the words different from what is found in Isaiah 43:11?
Nope, same word: Yasha which means to save, be saved, deliver, be delivered.
Context tends to dictate how it is used and translated.
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PSacramento
There are a few good books on how reliable the NT documents are in terms of Historicity ( the only criteria they canbe viewed under to be honest).
The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable? by F. F. Bruce (Apr 2, 2003)
The Historical Reliability of the Gospels [Paperback]
Craig L. Blomberg (Author)
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trillaz
Using the same scripture
Accordingly he went away, proclaiming throughout the whole city what things Jesus did for him.
Did Jesus not just teach the man about God? Is there no merit in that?
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PSacramento
Did Jesus not just teach the man about God? Is there no merit in that?
Of course but I think the point is that he didn't go proclaiming what Jesus has taught or said, but what he DID and he did this after Jesus told him to procalim what GOD did, the implication being that the man viewed Jesus as God.
Personally I think it is a bit of stretch.
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GOrwell
Is it that much of a stretch PS?
That verse says he did as he was told.