I cannot believe my father called me to ask this!

by serenitynow! 61 Replies latest jw friends

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    serenity...that's a tough one. I'm guessing you are a much better person than he is and that is why it is tearing you apart.

    Be angry, you have the right. He probably has no concept of what damage his ignorance has done to his family or you. He is self absorbed.

    I agree with Quandry. You have to live with your decisions. Do what is right for YOU. If that means helping him out, do it. If it means letting him stew in it, do it. But try not to do something that will make you feel guilty. You will end up just punishing yourself.

    Merry Christmas...hugs to you

  • LockedChaos
    LockedChaos

    Never let anothers bad behavior

    make you go against your nature.............................

    If it's in your nature to hate the prick

    then hate the prick

    Otherwise, MEH

  • Violia
    Violia

    My bother has always behaved like this- like I should bow before him. He in ungrateful and up until recently I have taken the path of love. I will no longer be doing that as he has just gone too far. He's on his own now. If he ever truly decides to treat me as an equal human being, I'll respond in kind.

  • LoneWolf
    LoneWolf

    Hi, Serenitynow!

    I understand how you feel and am in no place to criticize your actions. Being the father of 5 girls and a boy, all of whom are adults now and have the right and responsibility to make their own decisions on matters, I try to limit the things I say (when they desire it) to imparting knowledge on the background influences driving the situations they find themselves in.

    Being a father and husband was/is the driving force in my life (I'm 71 now), with most other things coming in a distant second. As a result, the desire to understand the man/woman relationship has been so central to my existence that it has approached an obsession, and I've written a considerable amount on it.

    I hope you will not resent my speaking to you as a daughter, as I hardly know how to do otherwise after a lifetime of being a father to girls. That you are black has no bearing on this. You could be green with purple polka dots for all I care. You remind me a great deal of my fourth daughter Jeanne, for she too has a strong sense of right and wrong, fairplay and justice, and very little fear of speaking up for it (or much of anything else either). I've written of her a few times on the forum, here and here, among other places. She made thousands of dollars on that second one last year, and is a force to be reckoned with in her own right.

    But all of us find ourselves in situations that are bigger than we are and that render us incapable of dealing with them. The way you describe your father makes me feel that this may be one of those cases. However, I submit the following not for the purpose of making excuses for him, but in the hope that you may find it easier to bear due to a little additional understanding.

    Many men simply do not know how to show love, let alone open up and bare their innermost thoughts as you need. Even if they recognize their emotions, managing to find the words to express them is a whole different thing, with the usual result that they can't, and end up existing in a gray world with few if any bright spots. They want to help, but have failed enough in the past that their inferiority complex tells them they will again. They come to believe there's no sense in trying, so the biggest favor they can do everyone is to simply leave or get out of the road. Many have tried to open their hearts in the past, only to have the ones listening ridicule what is said and/or use it to their own advantage. Men like these make others miserable, but they are just - if not more – miserable, for they condemn themselves even more than the ones around them do and then keep it all bottled up inside. Many, overcome with feelings of hopelessness, uselessness and futility, will commit suicide. In their eyes there is no way out.

    I went through a process like this myself as a boy and youth. If I tried to share something that I was happy about, I'd be accused of bragging, and if I was hurting, I'd be accused of complaining. Finally I just clammed up and didn't share anything with anyone. I suppose this is one of the reasons why I became a "LoneWolf", and by the time I grew old enough to recognize how unfair it was to others, I had become comfortable in the role. I try to share now, but it is still difficult.

    I think there may be an additional factor in your case, but in mentioning it, I must first remind you about my words above about you being black making no difference to me at all. It may make a difference in your situation though, NOT because there is any defect in the black race, but because of some of the poisonous baggage that blacks have had to carry due to their history down over the past 400 years.

    The black university professor and columnist William Raspberry and I corresponded on this subject some years ago, and rather than try to describe it here, I’ll simply provide a link to the pertinent part of what was written. It is here: http://www.howlinmad.net/prejudice5.html

    It would be interesting to know if your father’s “pioneer whore” is white or black. The reason I ask is contained in the link above.

    Serenity, I do indeed wish you a peaceful heart and serene times. Don’t let life’s negative aspects get you down, but look for the good things, for they are there.

    Finally, if you approve and feel it is proper, please extend these sentiments and good wishes to your sister. I thoroughly understand what it is like when all prospects seem hopeless and there appears to be no way out. But along with those good wishes, please find and print out a copy of Rudyard Kipling’s poem “If”, and when you give it to her, point out these lines:

    “If you can meet both victory and defeat,

    And treat both imposters just the same….”

    Those lines helped me a lot during the dark times. I should add that his words apply equally to both men and women.

    Tom

  • Night Owl
    Night Owl
    I know some people will think that I am cruel and vindictive,

    Not if you honestly tell your side of the story.

    NIGHT OWL

  • serenitynow!
    serenitynow!

    Thank you for your interesting perspective Tom. I have gotten to the point in my life where I understand that I cannot fix my parents. It's not my job. Holding my father's hand to help him through his friend's impending death is not my job. I have dealt with the effects his behaviour has had on me in therapy, so I am usually ok, until I have to deal with some special circumstances. Both of my parents are manipulative. I have put them both on notice that I am not going to have a relationship with either if/until they are able to be nurturing. The ball is in their court. I had to sit there in childhood and allow them to hurt me; as an adult I am putting my foot down. I don't want anyone in my life who does not like me. I have nothing to feel guilty about.

  • myusername
    myusername

    This post isn't going to be particularly enlightening or anything. Narcissists lack empathy and are stunted at a very, very young age of development in that regard. Everything I read in professional books about dealing with a narcissist is that it's best to get away and stop contact because they're always harmful. It's their nature. Some people choose limited contact, but there are more risks with limited contact. Our society makes it a taboo to stop contact with toxic or abusive or sociopathic parents. Even Stalin's son was criticized for saying bad things about his father. (If I'm thinking of the correct totalitarian leader. It was one of them.) Also, I have read that narcissists are attracted to religions/cults that make them the chosen ones and everyone else punishable or bad. Of course, because it makes the narcissist feel superior. I think the JW organization is very attractive to narcissists.

  • LoneWolf
    LoneWolf

    Thanks, Serenity,

    I should have added that it is important to husband our own strength, for if we don't and we try to help out anyway, then we are like the man who couldn't swim who jumps in to save someone else. Both drown.

    Someone else said to do that which leaves you with a clear conscience. I would echo that. If you have done what you can both within your knowledge and strength, then there is no need to feel guilty.

    My best to you!

    Tom

  • Think About It
  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    I am learning that a look can do more to reach someone than thousands of pages of words. I've had to accept that nothing would have repaired my relationship with Daddy to anything close to a normal one, not on this side of death.

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