Elder father sent me an email about Feb 2012 WT - my resposne

by TheStumbler 97 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep
    Is it possible a JW elder could genuinely believe this?

    Yes.

    It is also possible that he is being dishonest with you so don't make any assumptions. Make him explain his position in light of quotes from his own church documents.

    Is this just self deception to reconcile a 'loving God' with Armageddon?

    It could well be. I suspect that this is the case with my family members, but they are so dishonest about anything that condradicts what they want me to believe that I really don't know where their dishonesty stops and their ignorance kicks in.

  • TheStumbler
    TheStumbler

    Shades of grey, thanks for the quote.

    I understand that the Watchtower teaches that people who have died before the great tribulation/Armageddon will be ressurected.

    I always thought this makes 'salvation' completely arbritrary. For example, a person could live exactly the same lifestyle as someone who happened to die before Armageddon but the person killed in Armageddon would not be ressurected wheras the person who died before Armageddon would be resurected.

    The deciding factor is not the person's conduct but when they happen to have lived and died - completely arbritrary.

  • TheStumbler
    TheStumbler

    Also, when my dad said that you don't have to be a JW to survive Armageddon he used as an example people in third world countries who have never heard of the truth so could not reasonabley be expected to become a JW.

    This makes me think, if ignorance of 'the truth' is a loophole for surviving Armageddon - why do JWs preach? their success rate is terrible and the vast majority of people who decline to accept their literature at the door would stand a better chance of survival if the witness never called on them in the first place.

    The whole thing just doesnt stand up to any kind of scrutiny

  • TheStumbler
    TheStumbler

    @ Black sheep,

    I would like to think he would not lie to me but I sometimes I wonder - for example he tells me earnestly that there is no heirarchy in the Watchtower and that all JWs are considered equal. I think he actually believes things like this when he says it.

  • truthseeker1969
    truthseeker1969

    Wasn't it the society who chopped and changed their view on sodom and gomorrah (sorry if spelt wrong). It is not up to any man or organization to decide what God will do at any time. I can however remember decades ago an elder saying that the parents are responsible for the spiritual welfare of their family and therefor they would if the decided to ignore the 'truth' be held responsible for the lives of their children.

    Like so many things doctrine is subject to change, just like when they said they didn't know if Hitler would be brought back to life, then he wouldn't then he may be since he died before the big A...subject to change.

    I believe the big A will happen but it will be God who decides, maybe he will yack the adults and save the children. I have never been bold enough to claim to know the mind of God and feel sorry for those who do!

  • shadow
    shadow

    *** rs p. 47 - p. 48 Armageddon ***
    What will happen to young children at Armageddon?

    The Bible does not directly answer that question, and we are not the judges. However, the Bible does show that God views the young children of true Christians as “holy.” (1 Cor. 7:14) It also reveals that in times past when God destroyed the wicked he likewise destroyed their little ones. (Num. 16:27, 32; Ezek. 9:6) God does not want anyone to be destroyed, so he is having a warning sounded now to benefit both parents and children. Would it not be wise for parents to pursue a course that would result in their children being looked on with favor by God both now and at Armageddon?

  • shadow
    shadow

    *** w08 11/1 p. 28 Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe That They Are the Only Ones Who Will Be Saved? ***
    Our Readers Ask
    Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe That They Are the Only Ones Who Will Be Saved?

    Jehovah’s Witnesses think that they have found the true religion. If they did not think so, they would change their beliefs. Like adherents of many religious faiths, Jehovah’s Witnesses hope to be saved. However, they also believe that it is not their job to judge who will be saved. Ultimately, God is the Judge. He decides.—Isaiah 33:22.

    God’s Word reveals that those who would be saved must not only want salvation but also cooperate with the Savior. To illustrate: Suppose that a hiker becomes lost in a wilderness. He desperately wants to find his way out. Will he perish, or will he survive? The outcome depends on the way he responds to help. Out of pride, he may refuse the help of a rescuer, or savior. On the other hand, he could humbly accept help and reach safety.
    In a similar way, salvation belongs to those who cooperate with mankind’s Rescuer, Jehovah God. Salvation is a gift from God, yet not all people will attain it. God’s Son, Jesus, said: “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.”—Matthew 7:21.

    Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that God saves only those who exercise faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus and closely follow Jesus’ teachings. (Acts 4:10-12) Consider three important requirements for salvation that are revealed in God’s Word.

    (1) “By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves,” Jesus told his companions. (John 13:35) Jesus’ own example of giving his life in behalf of others stressed the importance of love. Those who love others are demonstrating a quality vital for salvation.
    (2) “I have made your name known to them,” said Jesus in prayer to his Father. (John 17:26) Jesus knew how important God’s personal name, Jehovah, was to his Father. Jesus prayed for his Father’s name to “be sanctified.” (Matthew 6:9) Sanctifying God’s name includes knowing that name and treating it as important and holy. Like Jesus, those seeking salvation need to use God’s name. They also need to teach others about God’s name and qualities. (Matthew 28:19, 20) In fact, only those calling on God’s name will be saved.—Romans 10:13.

    (3) “My kingdom is no part of this world,” Jesus said to Pontius Pilate. (John 18:36) Few today demonstrate faith in God’s Kingdom, or government, of which Jesus is King. Instead, they place their trust in human institutions. By contrast, those who will be saved loyally support God’s Kingdom and teach others about how it will liberate all faithful mankind.—Matthew 4:17.

    After learning some of the requirements for salvation, Jesus’ disciples said: “Who possibly can be saved?” Jesus answered: “The things impossible with men are possible with God.” (Luke 18:18-30) Jehovah’s Witnesses diligently try to meet these requirements for salvation. They also work hard to help others to be saved.

  • Yan Bibiyan
    Yan Bibiyan

    ....for example he tells me earnestly that there is no heirarchy in the Watchtower and that all JWs are considered equal. I think he actually believes things like this when he says it.

    Really? Ask him then to give his elders book for binding to a sister in good standing. Equal, my a$$...

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    Lots of good details and logic, but I think a "less is more" approach will have a greater chance of being heard.

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    for example he tells me earnestly that there is no heirarchy in the Watchtower and that all JWs are considered equal.

    ROFLMAO

    I need Outlaw to post a pic here for me!

    EVERYBODY knows there is as much politics in the Organization as there is in any group of politicians. They're all throwing their weight around hoping for the most prominent assignment, rubbing shoulders with the big-wigs (oh oh, there are big-wigs?), etc. And I don't just mean the GB. Every circuit has its own Clergy Class.

    DOC

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