TRTHSKR:
Your only comment to all the evidence provided to you is an off-topic statement about finances?
Really??
Sorry, but I'm starting to doubt you are really a "truthseeker".
WTS successfully counters claims it is a "false prophet"
by trthskr 87 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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trueblue
Collateral skin impact : Lynx campaign - YouTube
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Terry
I apologize if these points have been covered already. I just have a few minutes to read the link and comment:
We are not for a moment denying that the publications - in particular the earlier ones - have at times published information that was speculative in nature and turned out to be mistaken.
What is honest about speculation if it is not labeled SPECULATION or OPINION upfront? When Russell brackets his speculations with "god's dates, not ours" it sounds less like Opinion and more like "channeling" as the "mouthpiece" of god. Or am I missing something?
But the fact is that, for each of the dates commonly touted by critics as ‘false prophecies’ (1874, 1914, 1925, 1975), Watch Tower publications had published cautionary statements to the effect that it was by no means certain what would happen.You are missing the pattern followed in these wrong dates. They are offered with confidence and denial that anything uncertain is connected to them...At First! As the date comes closer the backing away statements creep in. When you quote cautionary statements try comparing them to earlier certainty statements. That should make you stop and think. During the Watergate hearings, President Nixon tried to defend his conversations with his aides concerning OFFERING BRIBES and PAYING OFF certain people to not testify. Nixon pointed out that he had inserted the words: "But, it would be wrong.." into the conversation..as though this made it okay. You seem to think inserting "weasel words" into statements otherwise persuasive and promotional makes the audacity okay.
An analysis of quotations from The Watchtower and other Jehovah’s Witness publications made by evangelical Christian writers - particularly on the Internet, but also in print - reveals that, far from commending Witness literature for all the positive material they publish, these writers consistently attack Jehovah’s Witnesses and actively seek anything that could possibly be used to discredit them - including many things published more than 100 years ago!
Am I to assume you are unaware of the excoriating attacks launched by the Watchtower on mainstream religion? Judge Rutherford tore them a new one. Especially on the radio. A law was passed (which he lobbied to amend) to prevent hate speech because of this. If awful things were said 100 years ago are they less awful?
Not to be overlooked is the larger context of the role of the Watch Tower publications. Whereas Watchtower writers undoubtedly pray for God’s blessing on their work and sincerely believe that God answers these prayers, they make no pretensions of being inspired, infallible or perfect.
Three points to be made:
1.What does "mouthpiece of god" mean? What is "channel of communication" about? What advantage does the "faithful and discreet slave" claim?
2.Referring to themselves with the word 'prophet' in those cute little quotation marks is pretty slippery, don't you think. Eat your cake and have it too, you might say.
3.Those false dates which were published and repudiated by the passage of time demonstrate what positive quality after the third, fourth, fifth time? Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT FREE to QUESTION the validity of them, speak out in criticism of them or demand an apology for having been sent door to door advertising them.
If Jehovah’s Witnesses have had mistaken expectations about the fulfillment of Bible prophecies, they are far from alone. Many other students of the Bible - including some highly respected Catholic and Protestant writers - have made similar mistakes to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Whole books have been written on the subject of predictions that failed to come true, but let’s look at just three examples from the world of Protestantism: Martin Luther, John Wesley and Billy Graham.
Look up Logical Fallacies on Google. Type in: Fallacy of Moral Equivalence. See if it doesn't say this:
Proposing that because some people act a certain way, than everyone else has the right to do so too.
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metatron
"WTS successfully counters claims".... just another example of the Watchtower's self praise and self elevation.
There is nothing difficult to understand or interpret about false prophecy and Deu. 18
They have proclaimed that Armageddon is Soon .... for over 130 years. They have been dead wrong.
The magnitude of that 'being wrong' , across more than a century, in a matter of such importance, simply escapes the notice of simple-minded Witnesses. It means that they have been running a scam far beyond anything Bernie Madoff ever accomplished:
They took people's money on false pretenses for well over a hundred years.
metatron
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thetrueone
One thing to reflect upon is that in the length of time that the WTS. has been in operation, the
WTS. has commercialized $$$ false prophecies, through their own published works.
In support of themselves they have self proclaimed that they are god's only chosen organization to dispel bible truths and
interpretations. Most intelligent have seen through this when they've been called on, some unfortunately
for whatever reason did not.
For trthskr who started this thread I leave you a scripture from the bible.
1 John 4:1
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many
false prophets have gone out into the world.
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Ucantnome
trthskr,
I have copy of a Watchtower October 1 1919.
On page 297 it says,
"This was the test - the coming down of fire; and the fulfillment exactly on time has proved that Pastor Russell was one of God's great reformers and prophets. Do you believe that? Well let me tell you that the preachers believe it too, but are afraid to say so?"
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cantleave
Trthskr watch this:
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punkofnice
The Problem with "False Prophecy" Polemics
Suppose I had access to everything you had done or said since you were a little child, stored on a computer.
Go for it. I’m not the one claiming to be something I’m not.
It would be a simple (Weasel) matter for me to pick out a hundred or two hundred of the worst things you’d said and done over the course of your life, to write them up in a list with dates, times and places and then to proclaim, in the same way as a correspondent did in one of his emails to me: “The question is not what you have got wrong, but whether you got anything right.”
Yes but I am an individual. Not a real estate scam that protects paedophiles. You cannot use the ‘appeal to the common man’ propaganda technique here.
On the other hand, by a similar process of selecting the 100-200 kindest, most generous, loving things you’d done, I could equally make you look like a saint. Both pictures would be true in a sense, but neither would be the whole truth. Why is this important?
It isn’t. No one cares what I’ve done. I’m not in it to control anyone’s mind….er….sorry….’mind cleanse’™ that is!
In the last 125 years, (How old is this?) Jehovah’s Witnesses have published literally millions of words in publications such as The Watchtower. This includes powerful (Weasel) arguments against atheism and the theory of evolution, eloquent (weasel) defences (defenses? Spelling indicates education) of the Bible (manipulated and inaccurate watchtower doctrine version of the Bible. Appeal to authority)as the inspired word of God, (For ‘God’ read ‘watchtower corporation’™)articles upholding the Bible’s stance on moral issues such as abortion, fornication, adultery and homosexual lifestyles. Watchtower publications have long exhorted (IE. Threatened & ‘mind cleansed’™) their readers to display Christian (JW’s version only) qualities and imitate Jesus. (So. The watchtower’s second class angel Mickey boy, gets a mention! Appeal to authority) They have shown how applying the Bible’s (watchtower’s version ONLY) counsel can (weasel) benefit family life. Through The Watchtower, millions of people (That’s too general a speculation. How many?) have been comforted (been given guilt, fear and phobia by the watchtower you mean) by the Bible’s message of hope. (False ‘hope’ is also hope. Stay Alive Til ‘75)
You might expect that evangelical Christian organizations would happily applaud most of the above. (Ah. Here we go. This is going to be a ‘we’re so superior’ paragraph. I’d like to see the writer say this about Islam then publish it) After all, evangelical Christians believe in God and reject evolution, consider the Bible to be God’s inspired word, oppose sexual sins and abortion. They, too, speak of the need to imitate Jesus and display Christ like qualities. (Stop rattling on and get to your point, this is turgid) You would expect, (Here we go!) then, that evangelical Christian groups could find a lot of positive things to say about The Watchtower. (No! You wouldn’t. DUH! The watchtower has been the perpetrator of much ‘hate crime’ against other religions and still is!) You’d think they’d congratulate Jehovah’s Witnesses for energetically spreading the above-mentioned views throughout the world and in literally hundreds of languages. But you would be wildly wrong. (Now we’re done with slagging off OTHER religions, now we can boast about the watchtower)
An analysis (please provide your stats! Oh, you can’t? Why’s that? Oh, you’re just generalizing and making it up as you go along, I hear you say) of quotations from The Watchtower and other Jehovah’s Witness publications made by evangelical Christian writers - particularly on the Internet, but also in print - reveals that, far from commending Witness literature for all the positive material they publish, these writers consistently attack Jehovah’s Witnesses and actively seek anything that could possibly be used to discredit them - including many things published more than 100 years ago! (What a total crock. Hasty over generalizations abound! This is just ‘us vs: them’ propaganda. However, if I claimed to be ‘god’s mouthpiece’™ then I’d expect criticism as I enforce my doctrines as rules that are not to be questioned!)
I gave up just about here. This article is low grade propaganda at best. I could imagine Christopher Hitchens (RIP) booming at the writer that they are a ‘fascist crack pot!’
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outsmartthesystem
"spiritually rich"
In the same way that the people of North Korea believe they are the most privledged people on earth.
Very sad."
Good analogy. Sadly, I watched a documentary on NK with my wife. After it was over she commented how sad it is to see people toil needlessly for an oppressive regime that hides reality from its people. Of course she made no connection with her religion