To all christians...

by wolfman85 64 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    watersprout said this: "By the Master saying ''the only way we can have everlasting life is to partake from Him'' is not judging. The Master judges no one, that Is for the Father to do. "...

    ShadesofGrey quoted this: "John 5: 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father."...

    the Father has already judged mankind in the garden...we will die. Jesus reminds us in John 8:24 that we will die in our sins. to believe Him and partake of His flesh and blood is to be bought back or redeemed from death (not sin) and washed clean of our sin...we are judged through(or by the righteousness of) Jesus Christ as righteous and are entitled to eternal life with Him in His kingdom because God is faithful and does not lie. So, if you deny who He says He is(the ONLY Saviour isaiah 45:15-17) you have been previously judged to die and that judgement stands.

    love michelle

  • N.drew
    N.drew

    Yes myelaine.

    "Being partakers with the son" can be accomplished without bread and wine. Yes or no?

    The original post asks about the custom of eating the unleavened bread in symbol of unity with God's son.

    The point of view I have which likely is incorrect is; can one become united with the spirit that belongs to The Christ without physical eating of the physical bread?

    Because he said HE is the bread from heaven. Spiritual origin, spiritual bread. Can someone eat the spiritual bread (something I believe is necessary to be united with him) without eating the baked bread?

    That is why I took a stand against whatever I did.

    Part A Part B

    I irrevocably agree with one of them. A comes before B. I think I believe in B. That can mean I'm in trouble. What I mean is I believe a person must eat the real food and drink the real blood (not really real but realer than real) of the Savior to share everlasting life with the only one from whom it is available.

    I probably will bake me some unleavened bread. It can't hurt. But I know there are other people's conscious that we must be aware of. We do not want anyone think they have to rush for him. Do we?

    God is a SPIRIT and those who wish to worship must worship in spirit and truth.

    "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." John 4:26

    I think it might be a mistake to say a requirment for EVERYBODY to worship "in truth" is to eat the baked bread and drink real wine. I might be wrong, but if I am wrong are you right?

    Please review that I said the scripture is true, but it might mean a spiritual sharing of food and drink. I don't know how it can be absolute.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear N.drew...

    you asked: "Being partakers with the son" can be accomplished without bread and wine...The original post asks about the custom of eating the unleavened bread in symbol of unity with God's son."...

    does the fact that the jews quarreled about this very thing suggest that Jesus was talking metaphorically about a symbol?...Jesus said, "most assuredly...unless..."

    And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

    Rejected by His Own


    41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”
    43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ [a] Therefore everyone who has heard and learned [b] from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me [c] has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
    52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”
    53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, [d] and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.” 59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.(john 6:35-59)

    love michelle

  • N.drew
    N.drew

    Thank you. Can the same perspective be viewed at Luke 22:19 where is in the only account that it is written " And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."

    The NWT says "keep doing this".

    but the word for "do" does not mean to me anything but do, it was addressed to them. Why did not Matthew or Mark say it also if it means salvation?

    http://concordances.org/greek/4160.htm for the word "do"

  • N.drew
  • ShadesofGrey
    ShadesofGrey

    Can one become united with the spirit that belongs to The Christ without physical eating of the physical bread?

    Of this I have no doubt.

    Love,

    Your Sis

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    I'll try to go to church at least once during Holy Week for communion, Maundy Thursday is very special. At home? I'll make Julian an Easter basket.

  • watersprout
    watersprout
    Dear Waterspout, I do not wish to make a spectacle, but seeing as you cannot edit your post after 30 minutes I feel compelled to post this correction here:
    John 5: 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.

    My sisterly love to you,

    Hi Shades, I didn't edit as I wanted to watch a film so logged off.

    What I mean't to put (I really shouldn't post when I am tired) is that in the end it's all handed back to the Father... The Father makes the final decision, questions I have asked about certain things I have been told to wait on the Father as only He knows.

    Sisterly love back at you!

    Nancy it's not what you eat and drink as to be in union with the Master, it's the meaning behind it... It's YOUR reasons for doing it. I use water and crackers as I hate red wine and grape juice makes me heave. Nobody is forcing you to partake, that is between you and our Lord.

    Peace

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear ShadesofGrey...

    here are some things to ponder in regard to your last post on this thread.

    the reasons I don't think that taking the elements is something that can be done or not according to whim are:

    the bible tells us that Jesus has two natures. one fully human with a human will.(Son of Man) one fully God (Son of God)...(calling this latter essence "divinity" doesn't express the fullness of this nature [being self existant Spirit ]).....hebrews 9:14-15 expresses this thought

    the bible also tells us that though we can be walking around we ARE dead in our tresspasses and sins...eph 2:1 (like our human parents adam and eve) gen.3:3

    the bible also tells us that the Spirit makes us alive to God...(otherwise our spirit is dead to God; see above scriptures)...and we ARE a new creation (like our Father, Jesus)...again, hebrews 9:14-15 expresses this thought

    Jesus says that most assuredly we must eat His flesh and drink His blood in order to facilitate a resurrection of the body...(it is these tangible elements that we take in that causes us to remain in Him(body) and He remains in us(body)...communion of the saints...when we continue to do this we remain in communion with Him and because we do this with others we remain in communion with the body...His body...(note: because of these things it is not a dead carcass that we gather together around to eat, as AGuest asserts)

    you will notice that Jesus said he who comes to Me shall never HUNGER(A) and he who believes in Me shall never THIRST (B). ...doing something is an act of the human will....believeing something is an act of the human spirit. In excercising faith in these TWO realms both physical and spiritual...one is IN complete union with the fullness of who Jesus is... john 6:35-39

    (I think that because Jesus was so emphatic; repeating Himself again and again to make His point in this one gospel and that it IS a command directly FROM Him makes it clear that it was a very important article of "the faith" and that this ceremonial observance may have been SO OBVIOUS to the early church that those later disciples who decided on the canon didn't feel the need to include 4 different witnesses to it's validity)

    love michelle

  • botchtowersociety
    botchtowersociety
    ...Should we celebrate the memorial in our homes? Will you do it? and if yes, how would you do it? Any ideas ?

    I get to celebrate it at my church as often as I choose.

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