Ethics and morality,

by Norm 53 Replies latest jw friends

  • Skeptic
    Skeptic

    Death penalty: I agree with it in principle, but have reservations based on practical issues. Like people being in prison for fifteen years before you find out that the police faked the evidence and that they are truly innocent. It does not happen often, but it does happen. Some of the anti-death penalty arguments are pretty good, like cost. Now I am inclined to err on the side of caution and say lock 'em up for life.

    Saying that the death penalty is barbaric is bullshit. There are a few killers that I would volunteer to inject the needle into myself. Like Clifford Olsen who tortured 35 children to death and still writes letters to the victum's families bragging about it. Or Paul Bernardo and his wife Karla who tortured two teenagers to death one weekend. Karla also accidentally killed her sister while "preparing" her for Paul to rape...then complained that paying for the sister's funeral used money set aside for Karla's wedding!

    Saudi oil: Norm, what is a good, practical solution that is implementable in the real world? I have dealt with many bastards in my life simply because the alternative was more horrible and that doing the noble thing would not change a damn thing anyway. It is one thing to bitch about a problem, it is another to implement a practical solution.

    Richard, who agrees that there is too much America bashing on this board

  • WindRider
    WindRider

    Jan, do you really despise Americans as much as your frequent American-bashing posts seem to imply? I am not trying to be argumentative.....I AM getting wholeheartedly sick to death of hearing these sweeping, scathing overgeneralizations of myself as a member of this nation.

    America is made up of ALL kinds of people; with all kinds of concerns, personalities and ideologies. There are good and bad, caring and self-centered, intelligent and ignorant citizens of this country, and everything in between.....the same as every other country in the world. Now if you want to take issue with the American govt. or policy, then specify that please. Because us Neanderthal, greedy, self-serving bastards have feelings too.
    I mean, I try to not hold it against someone say, who happens to be from Norway, who makes an outrageously bigotted, ignorant remark because I try to give him the benefit of the doubt. Esp. when in most other areas he seems to be so well-read, informed and not closeminded!

    Windrider

  • lauralisa
    lauralisa

    Norm,

    Isn't it simply about leverage?

    The players insert loaded concepts (and/or withdraw them) into their dialogue when it serves a strategic purpose. Ethics and morality are not constants.

    Power gaming is interesting, whether it's played between two individuals or 2.5 billion collective individuals.

    If everyone played nice.................................

    lauralisa

    edited to correct dorky spelling error

  • Skeptic
    Skeptic
    You are the only country in the western world insisting on executing people, and you also have by far the worst crime rate. Coincidence? Hardly.

    Jan, as you know, correlation does not imply causation. The argument quoted is one anti-death penalty argument that I have never understood. Could you please clarify and explain? I agree that executing people does not lower the crime rate. But, how does it raise it?

    Richard

  • JanH
    JanH

    Richard & Windrider,

    Jan, do you really despise Americans as much as your frequent American-bashing posts seem to imply?

    Let's just say that I honestly try to like you, but am frequently let down by moronic statements by people I expected much better from.

    Of course, I know that Americans are all sorts of people. Some of my best friends are Americans. It's just like a crowd Americans seem so utterly barbaric. Almost as bad as Norwegians going to Spain as vodka tourists

    - Jan
    --
    - "How do you write women so well?" - "I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability." (Jack Nicholson in "As Good as it Gets")

  • JanH
    JanH

    Richard,

    Jan, as you know, correlation does not imply causation. The argument quoted is one anti-death penalty argument that I have never understood. Could you please clarify and explain? I agree that executing people does not lower the crime rate. But, how does it raise it?

    True, the causation is elsewhere. I am convinced the same fetish with guns and violence that gives US the high crime rate also makes people demand the death penalty and other extremely harsh punishments. And eye for and eye, and all that.

    - Jan
    --
    - "How do you write women so well?" - "I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability." (Jack Nicholson in "As Good as it Gets")

  • puppylove
    puppylove

    Jan,

    Have you been to the US?

  • Skeptic
    Skeptic

    WindRider,

    Although we sometimes do not see eye-to-eye on American issues, I agree completely with your post.

    If I condemn blacks, I am a racist. If I condemn the Jews, I am racist. So, if I condemn Americans, I am racist.

    It is one thing to condemn a government's policies or actions, and quite another to condemn the people in that country with sweeping generalizations.

    As the last American election showed, about 50% of Americans (some can argue more than 50% of Americans) did not want Bush as President. So, U.S. policy is not necessarily the desire of half of the American people.

    Richard, who does not think most blacks are lazy, or that most Americans are idiots, or that Jews are...

  • JanH
    JanH
    Have you been to the US?

    Yes.

    I have to say you should send more representative people to Europe. The average American I met there was almost sane, while whoever slips over the pond to visit us here make us wonder what the heck planet they dropped down from...

    - Jan
    --
    - "How do you write women so well?" - "I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability." (Jack Nicholson in "As Good as it Gets")

  • Norm
    Norm

    Hello Puppy,

    You asked:

    Are ALL people from Norway as irritating and as self-righteous as you two?
    I can't guarantee it but I think there are some that are worse. We know that the US is far above criticism but it is really fun to yank your chain some times. Anyway I think you should read my post one more time and this time try to actually think about what you are reading.

    Norm

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