I agree that most JW's dont even know about this, but there were 3 more articles dealing with the fact it was now a conscience matter. Its one of the things they don't want to highlight so older JW's dont get all bent out of shape. However, I think it took something that once was a DFing event and made it a "counseling" event. Personally I see that as significant.
GAME OVER argument
by johnnyc 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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OnTheWayOut
I am guessing that someone preemptively removed all the posts that contained direct copies of a portion of AWAKE for some legal reason. Anyway, I did read them earlier.
JohnnyC my man, I am happy this worked for your family. While I haven't been able to do anything lately with my family, I have tried to break through to my JW family a few years ago. I know that cognitive dissonance would allow them to separate the masthead thought into two statements. One would be the creator's promise to bring these things about and the second statement would be Watchtower Society's idea that it would occur in the lifetime of that generation. They would say that the new light was needed because Watchtower didn't fully understand the creator's promise.
That allows the creator to remain without blame and then they praise Watchtower for admitting their mistake (even though they really did not).
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johnnyc
Yeah, I did have one person mention that, but even they after reading it a couple times backed off that arguement. In response I pointed out that if it was really that simple, why did the WT change this in 1995 - right after they changed the whole generation meaning? If breaking it up was the intended reading, no change would have been required - and the timing shows that the policy shift was in full swing. There is no comma, and the reading flows with the understanding at the time. The sentence structure here really makes clear the one clear thought being conveyed.
I agree that if a JW wants to reason themselves around something like this, they will. I've just had some very good success - and its probably the most direct point I have found yet - as you know getting cut off is the biggest issue. So many other points take a while to get through, and the gravity of stating what God's promise is makes people think a bit harder on this. What resonates with a reasonable JW is that they have heard the argument so many times the WT does not "speak" for Jehovah - therefore they are not a false prophet. Here, they clearly say this is the creator's promise. Tough to get around.
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OnTheWayOut
JohnnyC, a huge number of ex-JW's care about doctrine and changes. That's why they are ex-JW's.
Everything is worth a shot to help another JW become an ex-JW, so your post was commendable.
I will never totally give up, but my wife is not concerned about the changes that WTS makes. She just knows it is the truth, regardless of how they have to keep changing. My JW mother pays attention but has some bogus anecdotal "proof" from answers to her prayers that she is "in the truth" so anything they do is as I mentioned- praise to Watchtower for admitting their mistakes.
My mother may figure it out when she eventually loses her health and wastes all but the very end of her life.
My wife will probably always believe it's "the truth" but fade more and more into a semi-normal life. Maybe some terrible injustice will wake her up.
Basically, I have more hope for Watchtower destroying itself before my family members get out. It could happen.
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johnnyc
Sorry to hear that OnTheWayOut. To a lesser extent I guess we may all be guilty of being at a point of not wanting to listen to anything but "truth" from the WT (some point in our lives). I have to say, nothing gets under my skin more though than when I am talking to someone like that and they keep referring to the WT beliefs as "truth". Its becomes like a noun designation for the WT and their teachings. As I told my mother: "the only way you can relate the term truth to the WT teachings is that there is no truth in what they say". For her that didnt go over well, but my other family members are really coming around I feel.
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OnTheWayOut
My mother and I have an informal agreement not to discuss JW stuff nor stuff that a JW would take offense to like holidays. She violates the rule way more than I do. After a visit to my wife's family due to her father taking ill, my mother asked me "How is [her father] doing in the truth? She was violating the rule and using the silly loaded language, so I challenged the statement a bit.
"What do you mean?"
"Does he go to the meetings? Did he ever get baptized?"
"Are you asking if he goes to church?"
"Is he going to the Kingdom Hall?"
"Oh, you want to know if he is a practicing Jehovah's Witness."
I guarantee you that she put out of her mind any idea that I didn't know what "the truth" meant and only remembers my answering afterward about her father's JW activity.
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outsmartthesystem
" I have to say, nothing gets under my skin more though than when I am talking to someone like that and they keep referring to the WT beliefs as "truth". "
Cult 101. It is a cult induced buzz word. What is strange is that a witness will have no problem admitting that cults tend to use buzz words and cliche language. Yet somehow when you point out the dozens upon dozens of buzz words within THEIR religion....that doesn't count because....well.....they're not a cult. It is amazing that a witness can identify all the signs of a cult.....and then admit that their religion shows the same signs but unlike ALL THE OTHERS.....their group is different.