Atheism 2.0

by Qcmbr 384 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Qcmbr

  Apologies if this has been posted before or even discussed.

  This ted talk gets at the heart of what atheism is missing and my wife an dI discussed this for a long time last night. In short religion provides a framework for meeting, for ritual, for art, education and sociality. Without this framework atheism can seem lonely harsh and certainly disorganised (the general idea that education and culture can replace the gap may well be true but without a formal structure the route to personal mental fulfillment is somewhat piecemeal and patchwork.) One great example was art - in religion art is clearly defined in what it is trying to say, it contains motifs that are easy to understand and it teaches good and bad whereas art in general is much more free form and harder to understand or relate to since it isn't constrained by a framework. The example the lecturer gives is maybe have an exhibition on beauty so that people enter the exhibition with an initial context and the art itself is given boundaries and guides however subtle.

  http://www.ted.com/talks/alain_de_botton_atheism_2_0.html

  Maybe what we need are beautiful atheist meeting places, atheist charity events, atheist coffee mornings , atheist lectures on science. logic, art and beauty, atheist music and song..
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  cofty

  I haven't listened to the lecture yet but I read PZ Myers review at Pharyngula.
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  Qcmbr

  I can see exactly what PZ is getting at but I didn't take away from the talk the same message! As my better half and I have discussed our disassociation with our faith we have talked about what replaces it. Atheism isn't in and of itself an answer being largely non structured and formless. We've planned to use some of our Sunday's visiting National Trust properties or going for nature walks etc. but even so i find myself struggling to show my children , in a logical way, why critical thinking matters and how it it is useful in the world - there aren't any atheist practice materials or centers of learning. With church it was easy, we had Sunday meetings, books to read, chapters to memorise and lots of social events to reinforce our clan. Now we've left the harbour of faith and ritual the open sea is awe inspiring but at once dangerous and well, huge. I was also thinking about how beautiful some religious buildings are, truly breathtaking and part of me laments the seeming idea that atheism alone cannot inspire this sort of structure.

  I think above all it is structure I crave, something to anchor ideas to. Many believing people here detest religion and advocate freeform mystical belief however, that misses the point of the structure, the very building itself isn't what is worshipped but it is somewhere to physically meet. Without the physical that religion brings we are left ... dare I say poorer? If I were ever rich enough to buy and commision a beautiful building for atheistic puposes I think I would, I'd look for some beautiful architectural ideas, I'd maybe use stained windows!, I'd want to host music, literature and poetry shows and I'd put together a regular meeting shedule for children, families and individuals (I of course would keep no membership records or advocate any rules or regulations ) but I would want to provide somewhere to socialise (with a bar and kitchen / food prep area) and share culture.
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  Qcmbr

  ..p.s. chuffed that I got at least one response - I have a habit of writing duff threads lol.
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  cofty

  I get what you mean, I can see dangers in that too. Interesting that PZ was recently advocating a more positive approach to atheism - Are You a Dictionary Atheist
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  Qcmbr

  ooo that was a good thread. Dang missed it.

  Hmm and there comes the rub I guess, what do you stand for since you've just rejected a set of religious aims and sacraments? I think you almost need to take atheism out of the picture and admit that it does not have, by itself, any actual meaning! Atheism is part of a larger thought process that rejects magic. What that thought process is I don't know, I certainly don't want it to be Stalinist communism or anarchist free will. How disconcerting.
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  Terry

  Atheism, plainly speaking, is merely rude.

  And being rude is unmannerly. Often it is cruel.

  Atheism is like contradicting your Grandmother at the Thanksgiving dinner table; it accomplishes nothing and it spoils the meal.

  Atheism has a superiority complex. In the worst packaging possible.

  Atheism creates a hole, a vacuum and it plays whack-a-mole with other people's feelings.

  Atheism isn't so much an argument as it is a fart in an elevator. "Here, smell my opinion."

  Humanity spends millennia getting the better angels of our nature under a sheltering shade of good intentions with a subtext of "or else burn in hell" and pretends the costs were worth it. The Atheist stand up and hefts a stone through the stained glass of that pretension under the pretext of "letting in fresh air."

  Religion and Atheism find equal pretext to kill you, suppress you, marginalize your opinion and enslave you for a "higher cause".

  The ugly little secret is this: neither Religion nor Atheism are any different in the insanity of their Absolutes.

  One is the Yin and the other is the Yang of unyielding close-minded grandiosity writ large.
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  Qcmbr

  Hmm - bollocks. Atheism doesn't have any absolutes since it isn't a creed. This is part of my new questioning. What does one do with one's new found mental freedom and having won that freedom is there a sense that you should be doing something.

  Now atheists can be rude (I wear that badge) and it can lead one to feel morally superior to religious morality (I think so) but atheism isn't yet a movement per se, it has no structure with which to 'kill'. The only part of your rant above that I can agree with is that atheism 'accomplishes nothing' but that's my whole point. Atheism isn't an ideology with an end goal and therefore is insufficient for my personl needs. It is a great philosophical starting point but it offers no answers, no questions, no guides and certainly no excuses to interfere with others' lives.
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  Terry

  Atheism doesn't have any absolutes since it isn't a creed.

  I think you've missed my point. Atheism leaves no room for belief in God by removing any foundation for it.

  ABSOLUTE: A value or principle regarded as universally valid or viewed without relation to other things.
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  Qcmbr

  Atheism leaves room for any god for whom evidence can be presented might be more accurate?

  This is quite an exciting train of though for me since its not something I'd actively considered. I've been so wrapped up in the minutea of leaving, of de-programming that I hadn't thought what to replace it with, I hadn't even considered my personal need to replace it with anything. I find myself craving sociality with those who speak a common - non-magic- language. I also seek a place to exchange ideas beyond indulging (hopefully sharing and learning as well :) ) on this forum.

  I want my life to have a modicum of shared direction and meaning but without the ruling concepts of faith, unworthiness and atonement.