by flipper 81 Replies latest jw friends
DOC: I'm told that JWs CANNOT dare disagree with the GB, or else then THEY will also be shunned.
They SAY that's not true, but just TRY IT and see what happens!
That's exactly right, 00DAD. And as much as they would try to deny it, esp in public, THEY KNOW IT'S TRUE. It's the fear of God the GB that keeps them quiet and obedient (at least on the surface). Reminding them of it plants a few seeds. . . .
DOC
Thanks for all the great comments and insights ! I appreciate it. It was surreal just watching the expressions on their faces, especially one of the older ladies who looked at me like I just kicked her dog or something. LOL !
AUSSIE OZ- Yeah, good point. I'm sure they may have thrown the news report away and discussed how Satanic I was in giving them this info. But like you mentioned they can't deny that articles in the news ARE recognizing Jehovah's Witnesses conduct and not in a favorable light for sure. As you mentioned hopefully one of them went home and googled the article in private. You never know.
NO MORE KOOL AID- Good for you in giving your friend some information to hand out to Witnesses. You just never know who may listen.
HEAVEN- THanks ! I've noticed some of Moshe' s techniques, yes. I decided to be more direct this time and yet, keep it short as I didn't want to get drawn into an argument wherein my point I was trying to make would get lost.
SABASTIOUS- I found it amazing as well that the brunette lady kept trying to compare shunning inactive Witnesses to disciplining children when it's nothing of the sort. They are in such denial.
BAND ON THE RUN- Yes, I do have preprinted copies of this article I carry around in a folder with me in my truck when I travel to different towns doing my jobs. Sometimes I leave articles like this under parked car windshields at Kingdom halls. Once the weather gets better out here and it stops raining- I may do that next week. I'm able to dissociate myself from these people and not get angry while I talk to them because I know they are mentally ill - under the influence of cult mind control. It's like talking to a 10 to 13 year old child who has had their brain totally pre-programmed by their parents. In this instance - it's the WT society who has pre-programmed their brains. If I got mad while talking- it would just trigger their cult reactions and they wouldn't listen.
BLONDIE- Thanks Blondie. I'm so sorry you were shunned as an elders wife. I've known other women who experienced that as well. That's good that you are printing up copies to shate with non-Witnesses as well. Many people do not know that JW's do this shunning bit. The more we get the word out the better. I've told one of my long time customers about it and she actually confronted my younger daughter who worked for her in a residential job about shunning me and how wrong it is !
SNOOZY- I'm sure one of these or some of these JW's thought the information was from the " Devil " - but if at least 1 of them thinks about what I was saying and the reasonableness I expressed- it was worth speaking out. Thanks for the link on the molestation article.
EXJEHOVAH- Thanks, I appreciate it.
COFTY- Thanks, I just tried to keep it simple as I didn't want them changing the subject on me. JW's are good at doing that. So I kept them focused.
WASANELDERONCE- I hope these folks saw how ridiculous the brunette ladies analogy of a child " going to her room " was compared to being shunned for months and years. Time will tell .
TEC- I hope I planted a seed as well. If it even makes them pause in the future about shunning people- then good. It will have accomplished something positive.
HAPPY DAD- Thanks. If you feel like printing out copies of this link- by all means do it ! We never know just who we may be saving from a life of being shunned or we may turn the light on to non-Witnesses where they will see just how dangerous and damaging this JW cult is . Go for it ! Indeed.
MOSHE- I agree that JW's do care about how they are perceived at least on the outward appearance they care. Within themselves , internally or personally I don't think they care because they feel they are always right. But they worry about OUTWARD appearances and how the WT society will appear to media, non-Witnesses , and others because of not wanting to " give a bad name for Jehovah ". Well- It's too late. They've pretty much smeared that name like a dog smears it's poop.
Of course- Like you stated about the meeting you attended - the WT society tries to convince JW's that everyone likes them and will hire them for jobs over any " worldly " people first. It's all crap and indoctrination practices on their minds.
LIFE IS TOO SHORT- You were shunned as an elders wife because you wanted to buy a Starbucks cup ? Jesus. What's the world coming to ? WE know we're under cult mind control when they tell us we can't even buy a coffee cup ! LOL ! Like yourself many of us have been shunned and JW's use every excuse in the book to justify the shunning. Sometimes, they don't even NEED an excuse. If you just look at them funny, they'll shun you. I've experienced that as well. But I don't let them get away with it. I approach them and start up a conversation. THat freaks them out even more. I love seeing them get nervous. It might make them think for once in their life.
POOPSIECAKES- Good point you make. If we can get them to stop talking a little and they give you that stare, perhaps the wheels in the brain are grinding just a little. And like you say JW's love to talk and gossip anyway- so yes, perhaps the word will get around that someone left this information with them. And some may start to think.
ABIBLESTUDENT- Thanks. I was surprised when this brunette lady started using the " discipline your children " illustration to me. I thought it was totally stupid and lame also. Wasn't going to let her off after giving me a weak illustration like that one ! LOL !
AQUAGIRL- THanks sis, I appreciate it .
LDRNOMO- Thanks buddy, I appreciate it. I just want people to wake the hell up, you know ? I've seen the last few months how devastating this shunning crap is in my own family with my niece being shunned, and myself from my daughters. I think it just got under my skin watching these JW's sitting there so arrogantly acting like they OWNED the place clogging up multiple tables at one point. Then I thought to myself, " You know here they are just sitting so openly and bothering people at their doors uninvited with their message. It's time I turned the tables and walked up to THEIR table uninvited and gave THEM something to read ! " That's kind of the thought process I was going through that motivated me to do it.
QUANDRY- Exactly. A 20 minute time out is a hell of a lot different than shunning one's family members for months and years
I'll be back in awhile and answer pg. 2 responses ! Thanks again for your replies.
She continued, " Well, it's like when you send your children to their bedroom when you discipline them for a 30 minute time out and isolate them from the family. You do it out of love so they'll learn to be good and obey. "
My Mother got her "time out" over 60 years ago. Her family...the few that are left alive don't think that's quite long enough yet.
LV101- I'm glad you liked the link. It is a well written article. I think outwardly JW's kind of worry about how non-Witnesses view them from the aspect of media coverage, public opinion. But inwardly they really do not care as they think the whole world is evil and out to get them. So it's kind of a paradox that takes place within them really. It's just a facade of supposedly " Caring " what others think of them- if you get my drift. It's plastc, not real.
PALMTREE 67- Very true. We were always told as Witnesses that the people in the world spkoe well of us and hired us on jobs before anybody else. Such ridiculous tripe.
SMIDDY- Yeah, I should have counted my time ! LOL !
OPEN MIND- Thanks, appreciate it buddy.
STEVE 2- Thanks. I thought it was pretty innappropriate for this brunette lady to compare shunning to child discipline as well. Pretty lame on her part- I felt. I was quite put off by the sacharinne sweet childish way she spoke to me as well - like patting a puppy on the head or something when she addressed me. Hopefully either she or someone of those 5 people will ponder on it.
JUNK YARD DOG- Thanks for the props bro, I appreciate it. Yes, I realize I had the brunette lady on the ropes - but I compare it to a cop pointing a gun at a criminal when he's got them cornered. Is the cop going to lower his humanity to the criminal's level and just shoot him and kill him ? Or will he just arrest him and let him think about his life as a criminal and ponder it in prison ? Perhaps by keeping it short and sweet I may have imprisoned their cult controlled minds just for that moment and the perfect thing to do was at that point- walk away and let them think about it.
Here's the deal Junkyard - I've tried the way you suggest before - it may work for you in convincing JW's they are wrong ( and more power to you if it does ) however it hasn't worked well for me in the past getting ino long drawn out disussions and arguments with JW's. And what's the reason it doesn't work out ? Because the dildo brained Witnesses try changing the subjects every two minutes and they play the " whack a mole " game with you in changing the discussion so much it has you verbally trying to put out 6 conversation fires at one time- THEN the meaning and purpose of what I was trying to get across gets lost on them.
So - I find it much more useful sometimes to have MYSELF dominate the conversation, keep it brief, drive my point home, then walk away andlet them think about it. If you try to argue with Witnesses for a lengthy period - it makes them more entrenched and they put a brick wall up against you and they won't hear a word you say. Better to get a few points in , jab it in, let it settle and see if they can reason on it themselves. That's my opinion. You are welcome to have your opinion as well. Peace .
NUGGET- I was really surprised that the brunette lady used the " children discipline " example. It was really lame. No comparison at all to a person being shunned for months or years.
PUNK OF NICE- Thanks for giving me a fish buddy ! Love em'. It was really interesting watching this brunette lady try to squirm out of it by saying JW's do not shun. Then turn around and justify it by a lame illustration. Incredible.
AQUAGIRL- Good point you make that JW's just tell each other that people like them to get themselves by . I agree. They play so many self deception games it's incredible. Truth is like you say - the majority of JW's are " vile, cowardly, and superstitious ". Very true indeed.
00DAD- Good example you give there of the brunette JW talking an imaginary conversation with her child. This lady seemed so mind controlled I bet the conversation WOULD go like that ! LOL ! I'm glad you enjoyed the Huffington article. It was written extremely well I thought.
REBEL 8 - Thanks for posting the article on the cult prevention blog. I appreciate it. Good job. You are correct many JW's do the shuning on purpose TO HURT the shunned individual to guilt them miserably. I'm hoping the younger JW's these days wake up and don't follow the old guard. Yeah, I got a kick out of the elders confessing their own field service hours were low. Felt like telling them, " Well - If you didn't take so many coffee breaks you'd get your time in ! "
WHA HAPPENED? - Good point. Others were within earshot of this conversation. So that was a good thing.
ON THE WAY OUT- Yep. Still placing literature with people like I did as a kid ! But this literature will help them more ! LOL !
DESIROUS OF CHANGE- Good point you make. It's certainly NOT Christian or loving to shun people. Especially members of your own family just because they have different religious beliefs. Couldn't see Jesus doing it. Yet the Governing Body expects Witnesses to do it
I'll come back and answer pg. 3 in a few moments. Thanks again.
I've come to appreciate that the WT's SHUNNING POLICY has less to do with the individual than it does about keeping "the faithful" in line through fear and intimidation. Kind of like the purpose of public executions in the past.
Come to think of it, I'm sure the WT would gladly go back to public stonings if they could!!!
00DAD
DESIROUS of CHANGE- Indeed the typical JW is actually in fear of displeasing the Governing body or WT leaders, not actually God- however the WT society leaders have so convinced Jehovah's Witnesses that they are God's eartly representative- that most JW's LOOK at the GB or " faithful slave " AS God anyway.
POZTATE- That's too bad about your mom being shunned for 60 years. That is so inhumane and obscene. I hope she gets lots of love and support from you.
00DAD- I agree. If the WT society could legally get away with public stonings- I'm sure they'd do it and approve of it. Good comparison to public hangings or executions. Those things are done to intimidate and keep people in fear. WT society uses fear, guilt, and intimidation and manipulation to control 7 million Jehovah's Witnesses today. Steve Hassan's books on mind control expose out those methods quite well
brilliant Flipps.
Flipper.. I love the way you did it in a calm reasonable manner. I think are more likely to react postively to that then feeling as if they are under attack. I've always felt shunning was wrong (and I'm an middle-aged born-in) and could never hold with it. I think it's cruel and wrong. I really think a lot of JWs feel the same and wish it were different (especially when it involves their own family). An approach like yours could have a good effect on making them think.
Flipper - I've read Steven Hassan's first book, CCMC and am in the middle of Releasing the Bonds. It is helpful in my strategy to reach my two sons still in.
00DAD - I've come to appreciate that the WT's SHUNNING POLICY has less to do with the individual than it does about keeping "the faithful" in line through fear and intimidation. Kind of like the purpose of public executions in the past.
00DAD's comment makes me wonder if a good way to plant a seed of doubt in JWs would be to engage JWs in discussing their shunning policy, ask them is it to help the Df'ed JW or to control the behaviors of active JWs, and then say that the WTBTS sounds more like a DANGEROUS cult the more you learn about how it treats its members.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
