by slimboyfat 91 Replies latest social current
If you earned the capital, then you earned the income that comes from its investment. You also have the right to pass that capital on to your heirs when you die.
Anything else is an encroachment of the basic human right to own property.
So much for equality of opportunity.
Why should interest on your accumulated capital be a right? Interest on capital comes directly from someone else's labour.
Interest on capital comes directly from someone else's labour.
And that someone else profits too - they needed your capital to provide the infrastructure on which their labor is based.
It is so interesting to discuss this with an avowed Marxist...
Slimboyfat:
Why should interest on your accumulated capital be a right?
It isn't a right. If it were a right all capital investments would guarantee a return. The same is true with lending.
Interest on capital comes directly from someone else's labour.
And labor's wages come directly from risked capital if a company is not yet selling marketable products or services, or is still operating at a loss.
Where will capital formation come from? Labor can do nothing without capital. Go examine the living standards of labor in capital-starved regions.
We need to have a nationalised financial system that can lend money and ensure that money is distributed fairly and efficiently. Surely we don't need to argue over the fact that the current financial system is neither fair nor efficient.
So much for equality of opportunity.
Why should interest on your accumulated capital be a right? Interest on capital comes directly from someone else's labour.
Jeeeezus Christ Slim, this isn't as hard as you are making out to be. Do you want to go back to the barter system where nobody has "money"? Care to trade me a basket of eggs for a new wagon wheel?
Interest on capital isn't a right. Its an agreement between two parties. You can do it safely at a bank, and earn a little. Or you can buy cattle futures and make a killing or lose your shirt. But the key is BOTH parties want to participate.
Lets go back 5,000 years and there is no money, so barter system. I own a cow (that is if I'm allowed to "own livestock" under your economic system. But I'm tired of milking that cow every morning. You need milk for your family. I tell you if you want to milk my cow every morning, you get to keep 1/10th of the milk. You agree. I agree. Its basic capitalism without the money.
If you get your own cow, you tell me to milk my own cow. If you get a better cow milking gig, you move on and get more for your family with the my neighbor, then good for you - I have to do it myself.
Money just replaces all of the pain in the ass that comes with the above. Dollar bills, Euros, and British Pounds are a means of exchange making it easier for society to grow and progress as a whole.
slimboy....you sound like if it's not manual labor, then it's not real work! Try managing a stock portfolio, keeping up with market fluctuations, moving capital around to get the best bang for your buck, taking risks when your gut tells you it's time, etc. etc. etc. THAT's work just as much as building a house.
We need to have a nationalised financial system that can lend money and ensure that money is distributed fairly and efficiently. Surely we don't need to argue over the fact that the current financial system is neither fair nor efficient.
Nationalized financial systems are terrible at deciding how best to allocate capital or assess risk. You substitute a small group of decision makers with the vast organic intelligence of a great mass of individual investors. There is simply too much information in the real world for efficient centralized control. The financial collapse in the U.S., created by the central bank, GSE's and regulatory apparatus illustrates this. The financial systems you describe existed in places like the Soviet Union, and North Korea today, and they were/are far, far less efficient when compared to the aggregate activity of financial markets. In the absence of the market function, rational economic calculation is impossible.
Interest on capital isn't a right. Its an agreement between two parties.
Indeed, and you can't get rid of it without doing great violence to the concept of contract.
The basic issues I have with the current economic situation are that different types of income are taxed at different rates and lack of access to quality education for all children. I don't see any valid reason for capital gains to be uniformly taxed at bargain rates. The tax code should exist solely to raise the revenue government needs to function - stop using the tax code for social engineering and economic manipulation. If the government decides to prop up certain groups, it can do so directly through a grant rather than favorable tax treatment. It would help if people could actually agree on what they expect the government to do, but I suppose that's asking too much.
Second, until *every* kid has equal access to high quality education, then there isn't truly freedom of opportunity. I live in an area where there is only one public school for the entire county, and only one private school - so no meaningful choice in where to send my kids. The local schools are not great - merely passable - but there are a lot of kids whose schools are worse.
Big Government never solved anything. "A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take it all away!" It's just a matter of time once you hand it over. At first it may sound like a utopian ideal (and it may be for the few) but just give it time and it all comes tumbling down.
Eloquently said, botch.....Makes you wonder, though, why people STILL don't get it. History has proven it over and over, yet there are still people that want government to do it all, expecting that somehow....this time....it will be gloriously different.
If you get your own cow, you tell me to milk my own cow. If you get a better cow milking gig, you move on and get more for your family with the my neighbor, then good for you - I have to do it myself.
If you manage your cow properly, you earn more. If you manage your earnings better, you can buy more cows. You reach a point where you need to hire milkers and pay them while you manage milk sales, herd management, and transportation.
