So you think the Roman Catholic Church is different from the WTS re hiding abuse

by blondie 23 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  sir82

  He says they have been instructed in how to deal with child abuse cases.

  True, if you count "Call the WT legal department at the first hint of a sexual abuse allegation, before anything else" as "instruction".

  According to him, the victims (and parents) are free to go to the police and lay a charge.

  That is the current policy, as of 5 or 6 years ago. Prior to that, there was no policy. A significant part of current complaints against WTS handling of sex abuse cases is that in the past, the WTS verbally told elders to strongly discourage victims & parents from going to the police.

  They are also "encouraged" to seek professional help, viewing psychologists and psychiatrists as doctors.

  Absolutely positively 110% false. Virtually no JW elder would ever "encourage" anyone to see a mental health specialist in a million years. Every single WT or Awake article even hinting at medical topics always always always contains the disclaimer "This magazine does not endorse or recommend any treatment...". JW elders would certainly follow that example.

  While there may not be congregational sanctions for visiting a therapist, easily 80% or more of the elders I've known in my experience would actively and forcefully discourage it. Another 15-19% might tolerate it. Maybe 1 or 2 elders per circuit would see it as a benefit.
• 

  Vidqun

  Agreed. I think he is lying (Theocratic warfare). I have never heard of a Witness parent taking another to court for child molestation. The Bible is very clear on this, from beginning to end. God cares for widows and fatherless children. If you harm them, you take on God himself.
• 

  JW GoneBad

  WTBTS has the strong arm of a well educated WT legal department to fight against & beat down the defenseless and mistreated rank and file. The Roman Catholic Church has an even bigger legal department to hammer and thrash the lowly abused parishioner.

  When are we, the flock, to get justice from you dear God ?
• 

  designs

  I was bidding some work at a local Abbey and the abbots got that same look speaking about the Bishop that Witnesses get speaking about the GB. It can put blinders on the mind when wrongs need to be addressed.
• 

  Sulla

  Designs, you are correct. It it very common that people defend institutions which they love at all cost. See, for example, the Penn State decisions and reactions of most of the Penn State students: Joe Paterno's actions, I think we agree, merit anything except an outpouring of love and support by the students.

  In any case, the Church has taken what seem to be very serious steps to reduce this sort of crime and has paid out lots of cash. There is always room for criticism, of course, but Blondie posting a link from one of the parties involved in litigation is not necessarily helpful for becoming better informed about the overall situation. It may well be true that the subpoenas are some sort of outrage demonstrating once and for all time the bottomless maw of Church perversion and depravity. But, SNAP's press release is not exactly an unbiased source.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  I understand that the Catholic Church has only admitted and apologized when forced to do so, but at least they have been forced to do so in a few cases. I hope SNAP prevails against the mountains of lawyers with their mountains of legalistic opposition.

  Also, I do expect that WTS will continue to "settle" any cases that get so far that they can embarrass WTS. Certainly, I can sympathize with any victims that take the settlements and move on with their life, as that is the best they can hope for.
• 

  Sulla

  OTWO, sometimes yes and sometimes no. In plenty of cases, that has been exactly true. on the other hand, the Pope has taken the initiative to meet with, and apologize to, groups of those who were harmed. Some bishops have done the same. SNAP may be correct in this case, or not.
• 

  blondie

  I would invite anyone with doubts about SNAP, its work, its motives, to go to its website and get more closely acquainted with their work. One news article is not sufficient. Read the experiences of those molested, the initial molesting, and the abuse from the church when the person revealed it.

  I ask myself, what do they apologize for, "I'm sorry you were molested by "this other person." It is not the abuser apologizing. Do they say "I apologize that I did not believe you when you said you were abused, that we put other children in harm's way, that the church threatened you the victim, even saying your relationship with God is at risk."

  I have funded and actively participated in what they have done; to improve secular laws, support vicitms. I have attended their conventions and met hundreds of members, family and victims, legal people, even judges (Marci Hamilton).

  I can imagine there are some that say these people have an agenda and aren't objective. But then what does the WTS and its members say about ex-jws who say the same about them re abuse. Are the accounts on JWN and elsewhere lies, exaggerated, untrue.

  www.snapnetwork.org
• 

  Sulla

  Well, blondie, here is the letter from the Pope to abuse victims in Ireland. You can judge for yourself whether this is an appropriate apology or not.

  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/7487550/Pope-Benedicts-letter-in-full.html

  Excerpts:

  I can only share in the dismay and the sense of betrayal that so many of you have experienced on learning of these sinful and criminal acts and the way Church authorities in Ireland dealt with them.

  ...

  Certainly, among the contributing factors we can include: inadequate procedures for determining the suitability of candidates for the priesthood and the religious life; insufficient human, moral, intellectual and spiritual formation in seminaries and novitiates; a tendency in society to favour the clergy and other authority figures; and a misplaced concern for the reputation of the Church and the avoidance of scandal, resulting in failure to apply existing canonical penalties and to safeguard the dignity of every person.

  ...

  To the victims of abuse and their families:

  You have suffered grievously and I am truly sorry.

  I know that nothing can undo the wrong you have endured.

  Your trust has been betrayed and your dignity has been violated. Many of you found that, when you were courageous enough to speak of what happened to you, no one would listen.

  Those of you who were abused in residential institutions must have felt that there was no escape from your sufferings.

  It is understandable that you find it hard to forgive or be reconciled with the Church.

  In her name, I openly express the shame and remorse that we all feel.

  ...

  To priests and religious who have abused children:

  You betrayed the trust that was placed in you by innocent young people and their parents, and you must answer for it before Almighty God and before properly constituted tribunals.

  You have forfeited the esteem of the people of Ireland and brought shame and dishonour upon your confreres.

  Those of you who are priests violated the sanctity of the sacrament of Holy Orders in which Christ makes himself present in us and in our actions.

  You can read the entire thing yourself and decide whether he is holding anything back.
• 

  Terry

  Jurisdiction and Soverignty are very important concepts to this issue.

  Ordinarily, a business, for example, protects itself from legal harm by creating a fictional Avatar called a "Corporation". Notice the word "corp"? It means "body". It is a fictional "person". Yes, a Corporation is a Person!

  If somebody within that Corporation does harm and is sued, the one suing must actually sue the fictional "person" (corporation) rather than the owner, shareholders, etc. That way the damage is evenly distributed and borne by all.

  Keeping the above in mind....

  Churches are an institution which are inside-out, topsy-turvy to the Above arrangement! God creates a proxy Avatar: the Church. You can't sue God, so you sue The Church, instead.

  Now, with that in mind....

  Reality check: Corporate criminals cheat people and grow rich while the business itself goes bankrupt.

  Church criminals harm people but God gets the shame.

  Imagine a religion actually named: JEHOVAH'S Witnesses. By their own admission, this Name is the most important Soverign principle in the whole universe. What would happen if they allowed great crimes to be done and it were revealed to the public at large?? It would bring great reproach on the Divine Name, would it not?

  What a pickle!

  You'd think God would have Jurisdiction, would you not? If God were Soverign over His true church it would mean He WOULD NEVER ALLOW such reproach to occur in the first place!!

  The Bible purports to show how swiftly Jehovah punished Israel (a people for his Name) when they did wrong.

  If the Bible were true and IF the Church (any church representing the True God) brought reproach---WHY WOULD JEHOVAH NOT visit wrath, punishment and Venegence upon them?

  Could the answer be that both the RC Church and JW's are not the True Church at all?