by Fernando 20 Replies latest watchtower bible
| Top | God |
| Apex | Spiritual Persons (eg Paul) |
| Middle | Atheists, Agnostics, Secularists |
| Bottom | Religionists (eg Saul) |
Seemingly in scripture the only persons Jesus repeatedly tore into were the religionists (Pharisees and Sanhedrin or Governing Body). It seems he gave the Romans (secularists) scant attention, and chose to eat with the likes of prostitutes and presumably also LGBT persons.
If by "Paul" you mean my friend Paul, then your chart may have something. If you mean the guy who basically took over the Christian religion and imposed his personal views on congregations across the entire Mediterranean region then, no. That guy is a Religionist Extraordinnaire.
Also, if by "God" you mean divinity then you may be on to something. If you mean the ancient Canaanite war-god YHWH, then, no, Atheists and Agnostics are nowhere near him.
The closer you are to the source, the better.
People that abide by religions that are strict and secluded (cults) are at the bottom. This includes the witlesses. It also includes Christians that abided by the early Catholic doctrines, monks adhering to the Law of St Benedict, and missionaries that are working under strict supervision of a major church. It also includes Muslims that are working under extremist sects and are blindly following the Taliban or Sharia Law.
Next up are those that are in mainstream churches and mosques. Most devout Catholics fit this category.
Next up, those who are independent Christians or Muslims. They read the Bible or Quran without "assistance" from big religion. They usually study it alone or in small study groups. If a doctrine cannot be backed up by the Bible or Quran, they don't abide by it.
Next up, those who follow the supposed leaders. You might get groups that use the Bible to discern what Jesus actually said and did, and do their utmost to abide by it. Those who use the Quran may try to find Muhammed's actual message instead of what was actually written (and probably includes memory or transcription errors). This will get you as close to raw Christianity or Islam as you can get.
Still higher are those who try to follow the message instead of the leaders. A good number of atheists and agnostics fit this category. People will discern that Jesus or Muhammed actually tried to teach people to think independently, and try and learn to do this. Instead of doing what Jesus did, they do what Jesus would have had you do had you been around back then.
The highest are those that actually do their own thinking. Jesus himself was in that category--he did his own thinking instead of trying to live as a Jew. Likewise, people are spiritually healthier if they practice doing their own thinking, as Jesus tried to get them to do, rather than trying to be good Christians. Muhammed may well have also been in this category--if you can get the thinking yourself part down, you no longer follow Jesus or Muhammed. You are beyond either Christianity or Islam. At this point, either Christianity or Islam will pull you right back down.
The good news is that people are moving in that direction--Agenda 21+ or no Agenda 21+. Going from a large church or one that is high-control to independent Bible or Quran study seems to be a popular movement these days, as is just trying to go by the message instead of relying on the Bible or Quran. And, if they reach that point where they do their own thinking, they will be stronger spiritually than either raw Christianity or raw Islam.
Now, about that Agenda 21+. That is not going to be affected by religion--in fact, by enslaving all mankind to King Rothschild, it will put a stop to all religion, Christian or Muslim. Belonging to any group is not going to stop them from rounding you and everyone else up and enslaving them. Rather, religion is actually helping King Rothschild to implement Agenda 21+ by blinding them to the real issues. Jesus is not coming to save them from King Rothschild, and certainly Jehovah isn't going to do a damn thing either. By paying too much attention to Jesus or Muhammed (and the corrupt message that tyrants have been using to control people), not only are they missing out on their spirituality, but they are allowing the real slavedriver to sneak up behind them and enslave them.
'Science adjusts its view based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved.' Tim Minchin
It seems he gave the Romans (secularists) scant attention - Fernando
From what history book did you get the idea that Romans were secular?
Do you mean with the exception of...
Juno - Queen of the Gods
Neptune - God of the Sea
Pluto - God of Death
Apollo - God of the Sun
Diana - Goddess of the Moon
Mars - God of War
Venus - Goddess of Love
Cupid - God of Love
Mercury - Messenger of the Gods
Minerva - Goddess of Wisdom
Ceres - The Earth Goddess
Proserpine - Goddess of the Underworld
Vulcan - The Smith God Bacchus - God of Wine
Saturn - God of Time
Vesta - Goddess of the Home
Janus - God of Doors
Uranus and Gaia - Parents of Saturn
Maia - Goddess of Growth
Flora - Goddess of Flowers
Plutus - God of Wealth
Yeah I agree apart from these they were a right secular bunch.
Who was it who said God only exists to the extent we have faith in him ?
That makes it rather hard for Aggies and Athies to get "close" to god doesn't it ?
He can only exist in the imagination, not in reality.
Personally, I think the Bunny with the Pancake on his head, may peace and blessings be on the Holy Pancake, is really God.
A friend once referred me to this essay, which I will share here, The Four Stages of Spiritual Growth I have shared it here in this forum before
Wasn't expecting to find that old post up here. Thanks for finding that BTS.
My thoughts on this are simple: I think that you limit yourself when you go all in to the group think of a church/religion. I think that there are more evolved ways to view god and spirituality. When you move past group think, you allow yourself to grow.
The 4 Stages link really does describe to me in a general way why I feel that way.
ATJ , do you still grow spiritually ? If so, how do you go about it ?
Thanks,
Phizzy
