Discrediting an individual so as to avoid giving due thought and attention to the argument

by jambon1 13 Replies latest jw friends

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  jambon1

  It seems that this has been a tactic that the JW's have used for many years.

  I haven't contributed to this board in a wee while but upon my return a month or so ago, I was astounded to read about the article where the society described opposers as 'mentally diseased'.

  It's a very basic strategy and one that works.

  I myself experienced this with my wife during my more vocal periods of opposition to the society. For a good while I had a problem with drink. Not a violent problem or anything, just that I drank more. Often if I had been drinking I would raise points about the society which I disagreed with. I'm not talking about a slurring messy rant. Just discussing things in a very frank manner.

  Despite my arguments being sound, they were put down to the ramblings of a drunk from my wifes point of view. I cannot begin to tell you how frustrating this was. Especially if any points were related to the mental welfare of our kids. It was as if my being more lucid gave my wife an opportunity to dismiss firsthand any objections that I made. Very convenient really. It saved her giving any of my points of view serious consideration.

  In my opinion, the society does this all the time. Painting opposers to the religion in an extreemly negative light helps the rank and file JW completely reject any well reasoned or solid argumentation.

  Calling people who oppose the religions teaching 'mentally diseased' is staggering really. It makes them sink to a new low. But it works.

  Unfortunately, decent people who simply 'don't agree' with their religon are absolutely demonised.

  Don't let it stop you speaking out. Even better, do it in a way that makes you irreprehensible.
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  darth frosty

  2 things they rely on discrediting the source or beating up on the straw man.

  Reminded me of the sub-zero ice clone from mortal combat:

  link
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  Phizzy

  Once a protagonist in a debate stoops to an Ad Hominim attack, they are admitting that they have lost the debate.

  Everyone knows that it matters not the source of information, or ideas etc if they are valid they are valid, if Vlad the Impaler told you something that was true, it would still be true, even though you may not like him, I bet you would get his "point" though!

  The JW's/WT use every dirty trick because their position is so very very weak, they do not have solid facts and argument on their side , and nothing approaching truth, so they have to use underhanded tactics.

  They try to get in first by undermining any dissenting voice by labelling it "Apostate" (a word they have managed to demonise) or "mentally diseased" or "bitter" etc. before the arguments have even been looked at.

  I have never seen a reasonable or honest refutation of so-called "Apostate" views by the WT.
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  wha happened?

  my former FIL was king at this. He was the PO and had an opinion on everyone. Whenever we would discuss something, if I had an objection, his response was that none of the elders shared my opinon. If I represented one that did share my opinon, his next words were always, "Let me tell u something about that brother......."

  Uneducated twits is what they are and this is how they counter point
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  ziddina

  "Often if I had been drinking I would raise points about the society which I disagreed with. I'm not talking about a slurring messy rant. Just discussing things in a very frank manner. ..."

  PMS for men!! - Joking - sort of... My periods of PMS were when I felt angry enough to speak out frankly about the behavior of my former Jehovah's Witness husband, to his face...

  And later on, about the idiocy that I had been burdened with, ever since my parents joined the cult, when I was 5 years old...

  "Despite my arguments being sound, they were put down to the ramblings of a drunk from my wife's point of view. I cannot begin to tell you how frustrating this was. ...."

  Ah-huh. I can relate. Every time I raised objections or spoke out, I was told that it was my "PMS" - even when it wasn't that time of the - well, in my case, "months"... [Irregular - only happened every 3 - 6 months...]

  I am far too familiar with that behavior of using a "mentally diseased" label to control other people - my biological incubator - can hardly call her a "mother"; more of a "MONSTER" than a "mother"- used that on my father [chronic depression leading to electro-shock therapy] and we children [we were "his" children, therefore we must ALSO be "mentally defective" and therefore not worthy of consideration].

  She ruled the roost, she did - and although my idiot father - biological sperm donor - was the idiot who dragged us into the cult, "Mommmie-Dearest" found the cult teachings very useful for her own manipulative purposes... Like Governing Body, like manipulative biological incubator/Mommie Dearest...

  That sort of cowardly behavior just makes me sick...

  And unfortunately, although you would like to see:

  "Don't let it stop you speaking out. Even better, do it in a way that makes you irreprehensible. ..."

  In my experience, once a manipulative person or organization has slapped that label onto you, it is well nigh impossible to "remove" such a label - in THEIR eyes...

  The only hope you have, is to circle the herd and cut out those who are already beginning to wake up...

  Excellent thread!!! Zid
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  transhuman68

  I think with the process of being indoctrinated into the Borg, that the personality of the teacher is very important- it has to be someone the pupil likes and respects- because God knows there is no truth or sense in what is taught. So maybe it is the same when you are trying to extract someone out of the Borg- just presenting facts and exposing the lies isn’t enough.

  My dad used to drink heavily and start arguing against the Witnesses- but because he was a hard-drinking workaholic it just seemed phoney that he pretended to care. If I had respected him I would have listened.

  http://www.freeminds.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=392:how-i-helped-my-family-leave-jehovahs-witnesses&catid=48:restoring-family&Itemid=365
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  smiddy

  That`s why they use the" Apostate" label isn`t it.No matter what facts are presented ,what truths are presented,or logic or any other reasoning, it can be dismissed without consideration.

  So true jambon1

  smiddy
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  steve2

  It's an age-old tactic, one that even Socrates wrote about: Discredit the critic rather than address their criticism. All groups - religious and political - do it to a greater or lesser degree. Look at the vicious name-calling among Republicans unfolding at present, for one example.
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  SonoftheTrinity

  I'm bringing this back up and I absolutely have to put the "Thou shalt not commit logical fallacies" poster framed up in my JW dominated house' living room.
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  nicolaou

  The way to deal with this fallacy (and most others) is to calmly point it out and restate your position or ask your question again. If they keep going for a form of ad hominem keep politely pointing it out.

  Don't let them off the hook and don't allow the conversation to move forward until your argument has been addressed.