Atheists, Agnostics or Theists .... So Who's Happiest?

by 00DAD 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  ziddina

  "...But that part isn't so complex - unless, perhaps we are really hungry or in pain, we can just decide to be happy. ..." RetroVirus

  Retro, that is a very destructive fallacy....

  My [idiot] father, who suffered from depression for [apparently] his ENTIRE life, was CONSTANTLY being told that he could just "DECIDE" to be happy...

  It does not work that way.

  If a person has something destructive in their life - under domination by a cult, abusive spouse - male OR female; abusive and intrusive parent or sibling; excessive levels of fear or anger or sadness; hidden medical condition that saps the strength without showing itself overtly - like underactive thyroid, hypoglycemia, mild anemia, etc,....

  Then a person cannot just "DECIDE" to be "happy"...

  A person CAN delude themselves into THINKING that they're "happy", but if they have not addressed underlying problem or problems, then the problem/problems will fester and roil and boil up - and often grow until they become much more difficult to deal with.

  That sort of comment - when I was still associating with my family - often came from people who were tossing out "two-second" philosophies because they didn't want to consider the deeper aspects of the situation, or they were attempting to dispose of the problem quickly with platitudes because they really didn't want to be bothered with people who they perceived as "whiners"....

  Yeah, I saw a LOT of that mentality directed towards my father by the Jehovah's Witnesses while I was growing up...

  In most cases, it indicated a very shallow thought process and total lack of empathy for others...
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  poopsiecakes

  00Dad, to be an Atheist is to have NO belief in a deity of any kind. Lack of belief does not create belief. I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. If I told you I believe in the existence of unicorns and you tell me that there's no evidence for the existence of unicorns and based on that you don't believe they exist, does that mean you have a belief system about unicorns? No, you just have no evidence for them so you don't structure a belief system around them whatsoever. If evidence came to light to prove the existence of unicorns, you'd say 'oh look at that' and accept that they exist without requiring it to be a belief.
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  cyberjesus

  Here we go again..

  "Non-belief" is still a belief

  Are you hungry? what do you feel like eating?

  - No. I dont feel like eating anything.....

  - oh you mean you feel like eating nothing...

  - No. I dont feel like eating anything.

  - You do. You do feel like eating... you wanna eat nothing..

  -oh brother.
• 

  ziddina

  Hah!! Good illustration, CyberJesus!!!

  I guess a person could use a similar style with driving/not driving....

  "Do you feel like going for a drive?"

  "No, I'd rather stay home and finish the book I'm reading..."

  "Oh, so you feel like going for a NON-drive!!!"

  "Nooooooo..... I feel like staying home and reading...."

  "So, a NON-drive to finish your book!!!"

  "Whatever you want to call it.... I'm just going to lock myself in my room now.... [and call "911" for the guys in the funny jackets to come and get you!!!]..."

  Zid
• 

  cofty

  I've heard this line of rhetoric before and frankly don't buy it. "Non-belief" is still a belief. - 00DAD

  In the same way that not being a stamp collector is still a hobby?
• 

  NewChapter

  Or Bill Maher's gem: Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sexual postion.

  If I framed my life according to everything I DON't believe in, how could I ever define myself? Is it really so difficult for a believer to grasp the concept that being an atheist does not require belief? I don't think so---because I used to be a believer, and I fully understood that lacking belief in a god, was not in itself a belief. It wasn't that difficult even for me then. Perhaps some just don't want to understand, or wish to irk us by insisting that our non-belief is religion. Whatever. It is not difficult. Even believers disbelieve most things.

  NC
• 

  unshackled

  Or Bill Maher's gem: Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sexual postion.

  Thanks for the reminder of that line, NC. Good one.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_25w9CE73ak
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  ziddina

  "Perhaps some just don't want to understand, or wish to irk us by insisting that our non-belief is religion. ..." New Chapter

  I don't think that's it...

  In my opinion, "believers" simply cannot perceive a state of NON-belief...

  Even tho the believers often "pick and choose" which edicts to believe - and OBEY - which puts THEM into a partial state of "disbelief", which is what I understood you to mean by this....

  "Even believers disbelieve most things...." New Chapter

  I wonder what sort of response one would get, if one were to go down a "laundry list" of biblical beliefs, especially the more bizarre ones; and found one or several that the "believers" didn't actually accept...

  One could then point out that the believer is ALSO in a state of "NON-belief", when it came to that particular bible story/scripture/account...
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  frankiespeakin

  I guess happiness can be fostered just as much from belief and disbelief I mean it all depends what you believe and that varies from person to person in both camps.

  Yes paradoxically unbelief can be a belief but that all depends on one emotional view point on the definitions one uses. Maybe even be used as a Zen koan? The right master and the right student who knows?

  I would not think it good to reject anything that hints of being sacred or mystical thus denying anything that might be considered spiritual and only being one-sided with an materialistic viewpoint like Freud's. After all science and technology are only recent development in man's gaining consciousness and the unconscious works at a different level and it has been evolving for million of years and that's where this whole idea of Gods came from, and got projected into our consciousness thousands of years ago when egoic consciousness was still very weak. I would say be careful to find a more balancing of opposites belief/nonbeleif and happiness may be a more common occurrence, leave room for the sacred and mystical in your life without giving up thinking and rationality and you will find more peace and psychological wholeness.
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  THE GLADIATOR

  "In my opinion, "believers" simply cannot perceive a state of NON-belief... "

  Believers in the existence of God, are disbelievers in the non-existence of a god. So they are in fact themselves, disbelievers.

  They also reject hundreds of other people’s gods in favour of their god, which they give a capital letter to, in an attempt to infer that it is - The only God. Why can there not be hundreds of gods? Believers are, in fact, the ultimate disbelievers.