The Two Trees - My Genesis Ponderings

by cedars 190 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  cedars

  Thanks mP for a very thoughtful and considered post. In your version of Genesis there are shades of what I read in a previously mentioned book by Denis Alexander called "Creation or Evolution - Do We Have To Choose?" Alexander posits that Adam and Eve were symbolic of a group of humans, specially selected by God out of many evolved humans living at that time for a unique relationship, the hallmark of which was their introduction into agriculture in contrast with their contemporaries, who were still primitive hunter gatherers.

  Regardless of how you choose to explain it (and there are hundreds of possible explanations) my point all along is that you can't explain the first three chapters of Genesis without resorting to allegory, which you demonstrate in your own post (i.e. this means that, and this is symbollic of that). I maintain that, surely given the gravity of the events in Genesis and their impact on the human race, these things should have been more clearly stated in simple terms. For example, Moses was well acquainted with the concept of sin having penned the mosaic law for the Israelites to adhere to. Why is sin not mentioned at all in the first three chapters of Genesis?

  Cedars
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  mP

  cedars

  of course genesis is not literal, that goes without saying. the problem is we readers in english fail to appreciate the puns and extremeky important staemrnts made by the names of the characters for a start. all or nearly all names are part of the story, they arent abstract labels as how we treat names in our society. names back then are charms , staements of blame, glory, appointmemt and more.

  take achan the guy who stole some gold and hid it in his tent. not many realise hus name actually means idiot. we in emglish see a name, so what in hebrew its not a nme but an insult. change the reading and use idiot and its a different story.
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  mP

  cedars

  the main problem is we today read genesis as literal and trust our translators or theology. no where is satan or sin mentioned but we all believe and assume thats what the snaje and eve mean. after cain murders abel we are told he is worried other cities might want to kill him and he needs protection. the even stranger thing is god says he will curse anyone seven times if they touch cain. the q now becomes what cities, why protect cain ? the story also mentions a mark to protect cain. part of the answer lies in understanding who cain was. the modern xian knows little of cain, who did marry, we dint know. perhaps the answer *again lies in his name which means metal worker. back then smiths were very important, they made tools and weapons. the story appears to be saying, no matter what never harm a smith under penalty of death from the king. with this bacjground the other details of the storty make more sense. the citirses,'cains worry about vengeance and mlre makes sense.
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  cedars

  mP - yes, again, Alexander's explanations are similar to yours regarding the names and words, and what certain words meant to ancient cultures. Much of the subtle inuendos are lost on a modern audience. The problem is, we often super-impose our own interpretations on the account, rather than viewing it as it would have been understood in the ancient Hebrew.

  Cedars
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  mP

  cedars

  yes you are quite right. these stories are not about supernatural beings, they are often lessons about life, how to survive, understanding nature, and the important obeying your priests and king. taking this perspextive and everything makes perfext sense.

  take a look at slabery, understand that the elite need and want slavery ands its easy too see why god never bans it. women are of course property in their male oriented society. the priorities and messages in the bibke are there to only benefit one griup, the elites who wrote it, the bible.
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  criticalwitness

  cedar, when you say you find it hard to beleive that adam and eve did not eat of tree of life because they were encouraged to eat of all trees as well there was no prohibition to eating from it, you have to think about the fact they were encouraged and in fact commanded to have sex and procreate! had perfect bodies were already naked and unlike the trees they were the only ooptions! but still didnt concieve child till after kicked out
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  EndofMysteries

  I am unsure if anybody mentioned or noticed this yet, but the tree of life and knowledge has been one of the focuses of my research. Various things had led me to question if they were infact tree's or just stated as a tree symbolically. Same as illustrations throughout the bible of being grafted to a tree, or references of kings or powerbul beings to trees. But was there anything in the bible that hinted to this? One day I was reading, and stumbled upon

  Ezekiel 31, the entire chapter. But a few parts in it......."ceders were no match for it in the garden of God", "all the other trees of Eden in the garden of the God kept envying it", "it's heart became exalted because of it's height", "tyrants of the nations will cut it down", "whome have you come to resemble thus in glory and greatness among the trees of Eden, but you will be brought down with the trees of Eden to the land down below".

  In ancient Egyptian ruins and other civilizations as well I believe, you see tree worship as well as the tree of life, are they related? Don't know.
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  jgnat

  "...you would think that with such an important portion of text that would set the tone for the whole bible as well as the future of humanity things would be made as clear as crystal. I find it telling that the reverse is true."

  Demanding that the bible make sense is a modern construct, brought about by the printing press and universal literacy. Priests claimed that putting this foundational text in the hands of the common people would lead to confusion. Perhaps they were right after all.
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  cedars

  jgnat

  Demanding that the bible make sense is a modern construct, brought about by the printing press and universal literacy.

  I find it ironic that increased literacy is potentially to blame for any confusion over the nature of the tree of knowledge!

  Ouch, my head hurts... lol!

  Cedars
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  criticalwitness

  isnt there a chapter in bible that gives genealogy all the way back to adam? i also find interesting this is one of the two instances were god appears vulnerable he stops mid sentence and goes and kicks them out the other place is when he stops humans from building tower of babel i mean how do you put a tree there and not fully consider the consquences of what could happen if they ate from it.