Belife in God ( The Problem of Evil)

by JT 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • JT
    JT

    My wife and i are back in school again and we are in a Philosophy class and the issue of god has come up in the research material and the following is under consideration for us-

    being involved in trying to explain the REason that God permits wickness i find the explanation that i USE TO USE from the platform as a jw to be VERY WEAK TO SAY THE LEAST

    yet i find that it is the same basic explantion given by most "Beleivers" and it too is weak as tea

    well here is part of our discussion material-

    NOW I SEE WHY THE WT DIDN'T WANT US TO GO TO COLLEGE

    can you believe that the name of this class is:

    "DEVELOPING THE ART OF QUESTIONING"--- you got to love it

    the instructor has cornered me twice for not believing that i am really a student

    but merely a plant by the Dean to ck his class out since he has a "REP" for ripping apart most NON-MAIN STREAM CHURCHES

    i have reassured him that my wife and i are not "Plants" to check up on his class--

    he can't figure out why we are taking such an intense interest in listening and asking questions during his class

    ONLY IF HE KNEW

    HERE IS OUR MATERIAL FOR CONSIDERATION:

    The Problem of Evil
    Summary History Theodicy Questions
    Theodicy

    In the book of Job in the Old Testament, Job himself is the victim of numerous misfortunes. Although there is no apparent reason for any of these events - at least none known to Job - a number of people seek to give possible explanations (these people are known as "Job's Comforters"). Such an attempt to account for evil without altering the conception of God is known as a Theodicy. So, in Job's case, the comforters give various possibilities as to why his family should die, his animals be stolen and he himself should be afflicted with illness: they ask if he has angered God by some act or thought; perhaps there is some sin that he is not aware of?

    The thing to note about theodicy is that none of the main aspects of the problem change: God is still all-good, omniscient and omnipotent; evil still seems to exist. The difference is, however, that some reason is given to explain how all of these things can be true at the same time.

    Questions

    What is the distinction between natural and moral evil?

    What are physical and metaphysical evil?

    In what different ways do these four types of evil create problems for certain types of religious belief?

    List the three most obvious ways out of the problem. Can you think of any others?

    Summary

    For the purposes of the Philosophy of Religion the word "evil" has a broader definition than that possessed by human or supernatural agents. So, although Hitler and Satan would undoubtedly be included in such a discussion, evil also covers so-called "Acts of God" - such as earthquakes, floods, famines, etc. - as well as other imperfections in the world and it's creatures. There are two main types of evil:

    Moral evil - This covers the willful acts of human beings (such as murder, rape, etc.)

    Natural evil - This refers to natural disasters (such as famines, floods, etc.)
    Of these two types, we may further divide both of them into the following two classes:

    Physical evil - This means bodily pain or mental anguish (fear, illness, grief, war, etc.)

    Metaphysical evil - This refers to such things as imperfection and chance (criminals going unpunished, deformities, etc.)
    The problem itself arises because of certain qualities which religious believers grant to God, and the consequences of these given certain observations about the world.

    To illustrate these consider three qualities that most religious believers would not want to deny to God: absolute goodness (omnibenevolence), absolute power (omnipotence) and absolute knowledge (omniscience). Now, add to this the observation that there is evil in the world. Setting aside for the moment the question of how a good God could create a world with evil in it, ask yourself why such a deity does not do something to help combat such evil. Many theologians and philosophers over the centuries have asked this question and we will now look at some of the answers they have given.

  • Moxy
    Moxy

    this is great. i sense that in the very first class, youve already gone to depths of questioning way beyond the entire WT educational program. please continue to post snippets from the class from time to time if you can, and if you dont mind the rest of us free-loading.

    mox

  • JT
    JT

    No problem- it is kinda funny watching the other students like:

    "Why don't JT shut the Hell so we can get out of this class i wanted to see Friends tonight"

    the instructor told my wife and i that most folks take this class cause the need the credit not so much cause they want to learn something

    now the following in my opinion

    IN MY VIEW blacks are generally more religious then whites i feel due to the need to actually pray for their bread as to having the means to buy it- I know some of you will misss the point but i ain't got time to explain -- anyway my class consist of all blacks except for this one white guy and the teacher is white
    so the background of most of the students are they are real "CHURCHY"

    IN THE CHOIR --on the deacon board- youth ministry etc- so they don't care much for his askiing them to question thier belief system
    in fact we have had so heated times

    at any rate he made a statement the other day and i fell out of course the other blacks looked at me like YOU NEED JESUS TOO

    anyway he explained to the class that : "I know some of you will feel that lightening will strike me on the way to my car tonight, and that i NEED JESUs- WELL HE SAID i already know that i have blaspheme and i already picked out me a "Nice home over looking the LAKE OF FIRE"

    SO don't waste your time or mine trying to run the Boggie man scare we are here to look at concepts to see if they have any legs to stand on or is it just WISHFUL THINKING"

    AT THAT point i knew i was in the class i have needed ALL MY LIFE

    JAMES

  • Joyzabel
    Joyzabel

    wow JT, that sounds like a great class.

    "AT THAT point i knew i was in the class i have needed ALL MY LIFE"
    -smile-(not the old entrance school stuff!!!)

    Please continue to share with us what your discussions are.

    j2bf

  • teejay
    teejay

    Questions

    What is the distinction between natural and moral evil?

    There is no such thing as natural evil. Natural catastrophes aren't "evil." Calling them such is a misnomer. Moral evil is when humans have a choice and purposely choose to act in a way that injures others.

    What are physical and metaphysical evil?

    Physical evil is pulling out someone's fingernails. Metaphysical evil is threatening to pull out someone's fingernails.

    In what different ways do these four types of evil create problems for certain types of religious belief?

    Natural "evil" creates the biggest problem for believers since the forces that cause the harm have been created, put in motion, and remain under the control of a supposedly all-knowing God. A god who, btw, loves his creatures. How do you reconcile those thoughts about god in view of the horrible damage and loss of life? Very difficult.

    List the three most obvious ways out of the problem. Can you think of any others?

    God has been in the privy for more than six thousand years with a very bad case of diarrhea. Therefore, he doesn't know what the hell is going on down here. He's all-powerful, though. And oh... he loves us, too.

  • JT
    JT

    tEEJAY

    SEE i need to forward over my questions to you-- you can then just HOOK A BROTHA UP and i can watch the ACC games--smile

    nice post

  • teejay
    teejay

    Btw, James, Philosophy is on my list of classes to take because of the very questions you bring up. Sounds very interesting.

    I agree that a greater percentage of blacks are religious (spiritual?) and there are good explanations for that. Even though none of your classmates are JWs, I would bet that most of them are unwilling to question either their church or their Christian mindset to the extent you will.

    it is kinda funny watching the other students like: "Why don't JT shut the Hell so we can get out of this class i wanted to see Friends tonight"

    Too funny! I can relate. I hate it when people ask questions that are waay off topic or interrupt the lecture with, "but I heard that..." or "I read that...", something that usually has no revelance to what's being said. I'm like: "why don't you shut up and let the man finish?!!"

  • JT
    JT

    jbfree

    i tell you i can see exactly why the wt has always said not to such classes

  • JT
    JT

    I agree that a greater percentage of blacks are religious (spiritual?) and there are good explanations for that. Even though none of your classmates are JWs, I would bet that most of them are unwilling to question either their church or their Christian mindset to the extent you will.

    ##########

    man what are you talking about - during breaks they dog my man out it is as if they really want to form a "Prayer Circle" to pray in behalf of his soul

    and you are correc they RESENT and some have spoken out directly at "

    How do you feel that you can QUESTION WHY OF GOD

    the class is deep and the level of emotions run high

    we have homosexuality, porno and women roles coming up

    i know somebody might get a "BEAT DOWN" BEFORE THE CLASS IS OVER

    ck out this : the sylliabus FOR THIS CLASS has this in it:

    NON-DISCRIMINATION POLICY

    "Philosophy is a displine that thrives on the diversity of opioions. this should not be construed however that anything goes. it also thrives on SUSTAINED, RATIONAL CRITIQUES OF OPINIONS. to that end i expect everyone to repstect the diversity of opinion, peoples, topics including and not limited to different in age, sex race relgion ethicity national orgin, eocnomic stAtus and sexual perfecrnce
    no lack of respect concering any of these things will be tolerated and people who consistently exhibit such lack of repect will be asked to leave class. ALL VIEWS ARE SUBJECT TO RATIONAL EVALUATION"

    "AKA" ---------- WE WILL QUESTION WHATEVER WE WANT TO IN THIS CLASS EVEN YOUR CHERISHED RELGIOUS BELIEFS

    when my wife read that to me i said THIS CLASS IS GOING TO KICK

    JAMES

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    Hi JAMES

    I have thought of the subjects of evil and sin and have concluded that both are flawed concepts. What is the nature of evil? What is the nature of sin? Is context important for the concepts to seem real? Would there still be evil on the planet without human presence?

    How about sin? Could there be sin on the planet without human presence? Could there be evil on the planet with one human present? How? Could there be sin on the planet with one human present? How?

    Is there rational merit to the sacred writings? Are they errant or inerrant? Are they fallible or infallible?

    What gives one the right to question? And what gives one the right to accept?

    Thanks for the topic. Hope you have a great week.


    gb

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