Did Jesus know his father?

by nicolaou 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  nicolaou

  Assuming the historicity of Jesus, and I do, I wonder how well he knew his real father, whether it was Joseph, Pantera or another man. Because he MUST have existed for Jesus to have been born - you know, the sweet meeting of sperm & egg .

  It appears though that no factual information can be gleaned from the Bible or other sources about this but of course that hasn't prevented much speculation.

  If, as seems likely, Jesus father was absent what effect would that have had on the young child? Or perhaps Jesus father actually played down his identity and worked - along with others - to indoctrinate the impressionable young mind of his son into accepting the so called Divine nature of his being and his identity as the Christ!

  They say truth is stranger than fiction but I guess we'll never know . . .
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  AK - Jeff

  I thought, in my skeptical approach to matters, that your title referred to Jesus' knowing his heavenly father, the Ogre of the OT, Yahweh being his name.

  In thinking of that, I have to wonder, that if the Biblical story were true - Jesus really was Divine, God Incarnate - how could he live with himself? Knowing that he was part of a trinity-god that killed, maimed, hated women, wavered in his justice, showed favortism, incited hatred of other races/people - how could he ever live with the fact that compassionate men and women in his life on the earth were better persons than his father?

  Perhaps if it were true, he would have incited hatred intentionally, so that someone like Pilate would execute him and remove him from the pain of such awareness.

  Just thinking out loud.

  Jeff
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  tec

  Well, Mary's husband was Joseph, and in one place, they scold him for staying behind in the temple and worrying 'them'. The verses refer to his parents, not just his mother, so it would seem that Joseph was around, regardless of whether he was the real father or not. Is that what you were asking about, Nic?

  Peace,

  tammy
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  cofty

  John Shelby Spong has speculated that Mary was a rape victim. There is an incident where the Pharisees jibe something to the effect "we know who our father is".
• 

  tec

  There is an incident where the Pharisees jibe something to the effect "we know who our father is".

  Yes, after Christ implies that their father is neither Abraham or God.

  Then they said "We are not illigitimate children. The only Father we have is God himself."

  It had nothing to do with earthly fathers, or they would not have begun by trying to claim Abraham as their father, and then God.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  nicolaou

  so it would seem that Joseph was around, regardless of whether he was the real father or not. Is that what you were asking about, Nic?

  Well sort of Tammy. If Joseph raised Jesus as his son then Jesus would certainly have benefited from having a 'father figure' in his life but would it have been made clear to the Jesus child that Joseph was NOT in fact his real father. Was the course of Jesus life bent from birth to fulfill a theological necessity?

  Should we pity the child that Jesus was that he was robbed of a normal upbringing and childhood in order to satisfy the needs of a people so hungry for a Messiah/saviour?

  We'll never know who in fact Jesus real father was but I suppose my question is; 'Did JESUS know?
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  tec

  We'll never know who in fact Jesus real father was but I suppose my question is; 'Did JESUS know?

  He knew at some point. I don't know at what point though.
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  mP

  @nicolau

  Actually jesus may have known that God was his father but Mary herself seems to have forgotten, we have the situation where Mary says something and Jesus says he is busy with his fathers work. In fact his entire home village of Nazareth just thought he was a nutter.
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  Band on the Run

  It raises an interesting question. Was Jesus aware of his Messianic consciousness? A Jesus who knew he was God would not be so compelling. It is a small deal for God to be crucified. Nothing is risked. There is a lot of scholalrship on this point. I assume Joseph was his father. My assumption is that all of Nazaretha and surrounding towns could do the math. He must have been taunted all the time. I wonder if the Three KIngs were an invention to legitiimize his birth.

  What was the point of the gospels proving he had no human father? This is the belief of the church that experiences the Risen Christ. What did Jesus assume? Why is the Virgin birth so important to the church? He must have experience a dysfunctional family life the way everyone else does.

  He could still be God without the Virgin birth. His sensibilities were middle class. I would wonder about his ties to Magadalene but it turns out she never was a prostitute. The gospels never say she was prostitute. Rather, she was an independent owman of means, paying Jesus' expenses.

  We are full of questions about historicity. The gospel writers did not care to even tell us when Joseph died. They never said he was a very old man. If you don't believe in Jesus' divinity, these questions are not important. I tend not to believe in Mary's virginity.
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  nicolaou

  I assume Joseph was his father. . . He could still be God without the Virgin birth.

  So BotR, are you suggesting that Jesus was born naturally like every other child but was ALSO God? I've not heard that one before . . .