"I think that The Bible pretty clear on what Marriage is, and its views on homosexuality ".
Yep, Adam and Eve not Adam & Steve.
UK Gay Marriage 2015! :)
by TimothyT 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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cantleave
Hopefully any religious intolerance of gay marriage will be ignored and the law will be passed.
Just out of interest - will those couples in Civil Partnerships automatically get upgraded?
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matt2414
I realize that many people like to use this expression "Adam and Eve not Adam & Steve," but if you step back and analyze what you are saying, you'll find that that is a very hollow argument for expressing hate toward fellow humans, children of God. That thinking raises several uncomfortable questions that many so-called Christians find difficult to answer.
Example 1: Who created homosexuality and homosexuals? Is there another creator that the Bible doesn't speak of? Does God share the creation of humans with Satan? Homosexuals are here and they had to come from somewhere. Where? By the way, the animals came before man, so who made hundreds, if not thousands, of species them homosexual? They didn't sin, not are they influenced by human culture, so where did they come from. If you marvel at the animals and animal instinct, do you despise the homosexual aspect even though it's obvious this "design" came from God?
Example 2: If you are thinking that homosexuality is a choice, then, at what age did you decide to become heterosexual? How do you suppress your longing and, yes, lusting after others of the same sex in order to live your life as a heterosexual? You see, if it's a choice, it must be present in all human. Why would "gift" of sexual choice just be present in a few. If it's a choice, why is it that many homosexuals realize they are different before ever experiencing sex or even knowing what it is? If you think it is learned, then why do some people who live in areas not exposed to homosexuality, indoctrinated by heterosexuality, told they would be disfellowshipped if they became homosexual, preached that God would hate/not give them privileges/kill them if they turned gay, still come out as gay? Why do a large number of children of Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormon's come out as gay, if they were raised in households following their church's tenets and their fathers are elders? If it's a choice, how is it that when blindfolded, gays are aroused by the pheromones of the same sex, while straights are aroused by the pheromones of the opposite sex? If sexual orientation is set at an early age, how can God hold people responsible for something that has been all but hard-wired into them?
Example 3: Just because God created heterosexuals, remember, the woman came from the man, not from the ground as Adam was. She was part man, according to the Bible. So regardless of sexual orientation, humans are compatible. If God only created two humans in the beginning, is it logical that he would create two homosexuals to populate the earth? Is it logical or befitting of a student of the Bible to even use this argument? If you think so, then answer this: Where were the Africans, Anglos, Asians, Hispanics and others during creation? With just two people, where were the green-eyed, blue-eyed, brown-eyed, and dark-eyed people? Straight-haired, curly-haired, wavy-haired, and nappy-haired people? Where were the tall, short, dwarf and average height people? How about gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender individuals? In other words, you couldn't possibly have everyone there if there were only two people and, really, only one person (Adam) to start with. So to say that God disapproves of gays because none were in the Garden of Eden is to say that he also disapproves of everone else that wasn't represented either. However, we're all here today and that's what matters. If you believe in God, it looks like he wanted all this variety. Who are we to speak for him and suggest otherwise. Isn't that "going beyond what is written?"
Example 4: Some have ignorantly suggested that sexual urges toward those of the same sex is the same as alcoholism or drug addiction. Really? Did God put the desire and urges for alcohol in humans when he created them? Did he put the desire/urges for drugs in humans when he designed them? Did he put the desire for food in humans when he created them? Did he put sexual urges in humans when he made them? If you believe in God, you cannot answer No to all these questions, therefore, the argument is flawed and weak. Desire for food and sex are natural and we need them for survival as a species. So to tell gay to stop their urges is to tell them to quit living, and go against a desire that God put in each one of us.
These are just a few examples of questions that anti-gay people should be able to answer before they attempt to speak for God, putting words in his mouth, saying that he hates gays or they need to change who they are.
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cofty
The god of the bible does hate gays, all attempts to say otherwise is just prevarication.
However, since the god of the bible is a total jerk we should take the moral high ground and sanction gay marriage.
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WTWizard
I never did get all the hype that schools are "corrupting our youth by teaching them homosexuality". Yes, that is something that should be the parents' responsibility, not the schools'. And yes, they are wasting time that should be used teaching the basics of reading, writing, science, and arithmetic.
However, I find it equally objectionable for schools to be teaching religion in schools. An hour teaching about how Jesus died on a cross so you could go to heaven is as wasted as the same hour spent teaching that gays and lesbians are role models. They also make a stink about how certain states are passing gay marriage laws. Again, those same organizations make no fuss when religion strips both gays and straights of full enjoyment of sex.
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nicolaou
Could any Christian gay posters here explain to me why you have faith in Christ and want to be accepted by the Church? It's an honest question, I'm just trying to understand. In light of the Bibles clear homophobia I just don't get why anyone who is gay would want to align themselves with it.
Nic'
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matt2414
Nic, that's a really good question. But I think some gay people who have faith in Christ and want to be accepted by a church are just like straight people. They may have been raised in religion or seek validation that someone higher loves them and made them the way they are. Although I'm gay, I'm not sure what I believe anymore. That's why I ask a lot of sincere questions and listen to the answers. I do not believe I know it all.
On the other hand, I don't see the "clear homophobia" in the Bible you talk about. At one time, people said the Bible was anti-black. Later, they said the Bible condemns mixed marriages. Others have said the Bible denegrates women. So this is what I did. I stopped listening to the voices of religious leaders and their followers, I ignored the traditions of the people of Bible times, and just focused on Jesus. It was then I realized that Jesus never put down women; he didn't insult prostitutes or those who were suffering from women's health problems. He got along with women great, and he trusted them more than some men, and they trusted him. (He appeared to women first, after his resurrection.) I also saw that he never used racism in his comments, although it was common at the time. For example, he never ridiculed Samaritans or gentiles like some of his Jewish opponents did, or as historians tell us was common at the time. (John 8:48: Jewish opponents attempted to insult Jesus by saying he was a "Samaritan and demon-possessed." Jesus denied being demon-possessed while ignoring the comment about being a Samaritan, not lowering himself to their level.) He was kind to lepers, something that was unheard of at the time. Also, he never criticized gays or lesbians, even though they surely existed. He doesn't even mention them; it wasn't an issue with him. When he said God loved the world, he meant everybody. John 3:16.
It seems that the Bible can act as a mirror. People who see hate in there, are really seeing what's in their own hearts, or at least in the heart of the person preaching to them at their church. That's my opinion, but I'm not sure what I believe anymore. But I do find it all very fascinating though.