Sex, the Disabled and the Terminally Single

by bigmouth 52 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Band on the Run

  Decades ago, New York Magazine, ran an essay contest for Valentine's Day. As much as I adore NY, the ulta cool and wealthy life style repels me. I braced myself as I read the article. Typical for New York, all the articles were about beautiful, wealthy people with power, meeting at society waterholes. Finally, one essay describe a couple where the husband had a severe stroke. After months of struggle, her husband was able to vocalize her name. He was drooling and a fragment of what he once was. He had major cognitive impairments. The story was a shock after all the young Upper East side stories. It won the competitoin hands down.

  I lived with street prostitution in front of my building for decades. When I moved in, I saw the prostitutes but I had a liberal attitude. One day I stared at a pimp for three hours b/c I had nothing else to do. He seemed to get off on it. The abuse and drugs were so blatant. Also, the prostitutes were so god damn ugly and seemed to have only a few days life left in them. I saw middle class men from NJ seeking them out. With the bar scene, I don't understand why anyone would risk dread diseases. I am certain they were HIV. The police told me the amount of a bribe i would have to pay to get rid of them. A wealthy couple arranged for a front page article in the New York Post. The NYPD and DEA closed the crack house the same day.

  Perhaps there are other forms of prostitution. I strongly believe it should be legalized, zoned, health regulations imposed, etc. Zone it on a pier in the Hudson River so that resident can brings saw at night and the prostitutes can drown by the Verrazano Narrows Bridge. There are so many victims of this crime. Zoning will not rid the system of serious victims. It will take it out of my neighborhood.
• 

  Lady Lee

  This time I will address the questions in the OP

  Put aside your religious or moral standards if you can for a moment and give me your viewpoint on this........

  Moral beliefs aside

  Generally, the 'beautiful people' pair off with other 'beautiful people' in a sexual union for however long, and the average lookers meet other average lookers and so on down the line until you come to.......................those who don't appeal to the opposite sex due to appearance, injury, illness or mental capacity.

  Really? Go sit in the mall for an hour and watch the people. People are often mismatched or so it might seem to us. Maybe the thin guy really enjoys the curves of a plus sized woman. Maybe that great looking woman sees beyond the external and loves the person within. Maybe the couple have common interests that go beyond the physical. Maybe the woman with with the guy who has a disability has all the patience in the woirld for a man with CP who needs time to get his words out. And there are certainly enough websites out there to show that for every difference a person might have there is another who is attracted to that exact thing.

  Can, or should, these people be given access to those in the sex trade for 'relief' without cause for fear or stigmatising ? Or is it a case of "That's too bad" (Meaning you're committing fornication and that cannot be sanctioned in any way)?

  No. I don't think our tax dollars should be spent this way. There are plenty of people who, for whatever reason, don't ever resort to a person in the sex trade to get relief. Some of the impracticalities of this idea:

  • Who would decide whether a person was eligible? Doctor? Social Worker? Psychiatrist? What about their moral beliefs regardign who shoudl be eligible?
  • What criteria woudl they use? Too ugly to get a boyfriend? Too fat to attract a girlfriend? Or too fat so that sex is a challenge? Too disabled to find a partner?
  • What frequency would be paid for? Once a week? 2-3 times a week?2-3 times a day? Once amonth? How on earth would any one determine how often "relief" would be paid for?
  • How does the person who decides eligibility determine whether there is a real physical issue here ot the person is just too miserable to get partner or just couldn't be bothered to actually do what is required to have a partner?

  In my first post on this thread I mentioned sexual facilitators. For the severely disabled I might be more open to this arrangement. Two people who have committed themselves to each other (not necessarily married) but due to disability cannot manage things on their own. Then I could see th euse of facillitators.

  Have you ever needed to counsel a person (or their parents) on this ? Did you tell them, "It's too bad you're a quadriplegic/unattractive/simple-minded, you'll just have to wait for the new system", or did you have some 'creative' advice.

  I have never been an elder so as a JW this never was an issue.

  In my work with incest survivors sexual issues often came up. I was not shy in talking about it. I had taken 7 courses in human sexuality (from different perspectives). All the textbooks had chapters on sexuality and people with disabilities. I even wrote a guidebook to help parents talk to their deaf children about sexuality.

  I think that if you are creative in thinking about how to address certain issues they can be overcome. The question I keep askign myself is this: Would I ever consioder beign a facilitator? Under certain conditions I could see myself doing this for a couple who needed that kind of assistance. Discretely mind you. I'd help in positioning and then step outside the room and only re-enter if called back in. But I would only do this if other less intrusive and creative things had failed.
• 

  tec

  I have a friend who is very concerned about attractiveness, and won't consider anyone not attractive to their standards. My friend is often paired up with people who are just as vain, and it never works out. When you're looking first and foremost to beauty on the outside (which is completely subjective), then you are missing out on finding someone who is beautiful on the inside, which has nothing to do with outward apearance.

  Confidence and how you treat another person is also important when looking for and finding a partner. Just as or more important than looks, imo. Some people also purposely stay away from the 'beautiful people'.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  Razziel

  Lady Lee,

  I respect your views, but I think many of the examples you cite are the exception and not the rule. I.E. Some women have stronger arms than some men, but in general it's the other way around.
• 

  Lady Lee

  Razziel

  The examples I cite are actually pretty close to the norm. I know hundreds of people with all kinds of disabilities. When they are given the means to take care of themselves, and all the equipment and tools they need they are loathe to have someone wait on them. Given the means to better their lives most grab it with both hands and start pulling.

  Sure there are some who want to bemoan their disability. But you have those in the undisabled world too. Most people with disabilites get angry when they see others sitting there begging for money. They know that the few who do this give them all a bad name. That is what people see - the beggars. But I tell you for every disabled person I see out there begging I see dozens of others who are able-bodied and capable of so much more.

  I have worked and even lived in shelters for the homeless. You get to see a lot of stuff in there. Interestingly the people without disabilities were the ones most likely to be out asking for money. The people with the disabilities, and yes there were a few, were there just until they could get things together so they could get a job and get on with their lives.

  Most people with disabilities are very strong and determined to better themselves. They might not be Hawkings or be working on developing the Canada Arm, but they do have jobs that support them. They are teachers and accountants, administrators, office workers, clerks, shippers, drivers, cooks, cleaners, and actors. Some have their own business. Of all the deaf people I knew who were JWs not one was on assistance. Every one of them had a job that supported them and their family.

  Most people with a disability that I knew either were born with the disability if acquired it when they were young. They were determined to be as independant as possible.

  It seems to me that those who acquire their disability later in life are more likely to have a harder time getting back on their feet. But I sispect they werer like that before the disability. Now they are just more visible.

  The days of closing people with disabilities up in the backwards of hospitals are gone -- at least in many countries. There are all kinds of residences where they can get their needs met so they can live productive lives - which is what they want and what they do.
• 

  Lady Lee

  This topic has really been bugging me and I had to sit and wonder why.

  I am now a person with a visible disability. Kinda hard to miss the wheelchair. I look around and see other people in wheelchairs who are wearign dirty or messy clothes. They look like they have just rolled out of the garbage dump. I know other people see them too - if they see them at all. And they want to stick that label on all people with disabilities - unkempt, unable, and without any use in the world, just another person dragging the system down.

  Kids are great. They see the person before they see the chair. They are curious and ask questions. Too often the parents are embarrasssed and drag the kids away but I let them know it is ok for the kid to ask. I am honest and answer their questions in a way they will understand. How else can we teach people that we are just like everybody else. We just have an extra problem to deal with and whether it is a hearing aid, a pair of glesses, a wheelchair or walker, a cane or a dog we function just like everybody else.

  I don't like being treated as if I am not there. I don't like it when people think that because I am in a wheelchair there is something wrong with my hearing or my ability to understand them and carry on a normal conversation. I don't like it when I am with someone else and the two of them talk about me as if I am not there "Well who is she here to see?" I am quite capable of understanding a question and giving my own answer. (one of my issues with my second husband who treated me like I lost my brain somewhere along the way).

  People have all these stereotypes about people with disabilities. And they are WRONG.

  I don't need money from the government to satisfy my sexual needs. If I am ever that desperate I can go buy a vibrator.
• 

  Band on the Run

  I bit into the supermodel business. In fact, I bought subscriptions to a variety of fashion mags and then bought an earlier copy at special newsstands in Manhattan. In my regular course of business, I met and hung out with a supermodel who then moved into feature films. Few supermodels look like supermodels off screen. She adored Laura Ashley when she modeled Chanel in Paris. I was always felt deficient. Over time I discovered that most men don't like that high fashion, heavy make up look.

  Perhaps b/c I lived in a world city with many people but I saw mismatched couples all the time. Sometimes I wondered how I could be single when so and so was married. I've read that people pretty much end up with their own looks. There are exceptions. It give me great hope. As I mature, I noticed character counts for more than education or looks. People who are sloppy turn me off. I choose to veer towards fashion foward. Yet I hope if I had vast sums, I'd donate the money to good causes rather than drop it in the stores I love so much.

  Real people are so much finer than fashion mag people. Some people famous today look horrible to me. Kim Kardashian is example number one. I liked pretty when I was younger. Princess Diana, Grace Kelley pretty. Now I see a place for beauties such as Grace Jones. The pretties can't do couture. Drama has its place. Anyone can be dramatic. The street fashion is my favorite. There were no blacks on magazines or in magazines growing up. Look at the black models now.

  This whole discussion relates back to disability rights. I am very frustrated with the almost lack of concerted political action by the disabled community. To often disabled people are infantilized and not seen as adult, sexual beings. If poor, illiterate, migrant farmers could organize for the 1960s civil rights movements, I wish the disability community would get its act together. I have a large sense of entitlement b/c I was not disabled for most of my life. I know what the alternatives are. There is a disability movement. It is not docile. I am convinced disabled people will only be perceived as sexy once there is greater political maturity. I want wheel chair sit ins with misdemeanor arrests. My disabled lawyer colleagues want to target a specific target and send faxes en masse to break their system. I want to be on the network news. Politicans should be afraid of our power. Within a short time, the disabled will look different to everyone.

  True, I see many very sloppy disabled people. It is hard to maintain your appearance on a pittance.
• 

  Lady Lee

  Band

  The disabled have come a long long way from whne I was a kid. Back then they were locked away somewhere. Even if you did get out many buildings were not accessible to anyone in a wheelchair. Sidewalks were inaccessible so going down the road was dangerous. You never saw the deaf signing to each other as they walked down the street. The blind were probably the most openly visible.

  I have lived in 3 major cities in Canada and all thress have made the city very accessible to those with mobility problems. Sidewalks cuts, accessible public buildings and all new public buildings must be accessible. Many TV shows have described video for the visually impaiered or closed captions for the hearing impaired. You see people in wheelchairs and scooters everywhere. We see more people with disabilities in TV programs as part of the emsemble cast.

  And I suspect that as the population gets older more changes will be on the way. Although I must say that many older people are still stuck on devices as a sign that you are giving up your independance rather than reclaiming it.

  When I am out on my chair I often find opportunities to educate people - like the little kids who want to know why I use a wheelchair. Their mothers might pull them away but I reassure them that it is ok and good for them to ask questions. Every time I doi that I am educating more than that one child. I also stop when dogs seem to be afraid of the wheelchair and allow the dog to get comfortable around it. I see that as my way of sensitizing the world around me.

  I do agree with you that society has yet to begin to see people with disabilities as sexual beings. Probably why I have been hammering away in here.

  Maybe we need a disabled model in a Victoria's Secret ad!!!
• 

  Violia

  The best car sticker I ever saw was " I am disabled and I vote". The politicians should give that some thought.

  I am so glad to see average or at least close to average size women modeling and of course we have plus size models now too. and yes, I want to see the disabled used in movies and modeling .

  I am sick of seeing the mentally disabled treated so shabbily. Many brilliant , artists etc have battled with mental illness. It is time to bring this out of the closet and reduce the fear folks have for those who battle mental illness. I was so happy to see Glen Close in a commercial that showed her sister with a T-shirt that said " Bipolar". I think two of the last groups you can safely malign is the overweight and the mentally ill. Overweight , obese and mentally ill folks have sex lives too.

  One of my favorite paper back writers from the 70's was Erma Bombeck. She helped me survive raising my kids. She was a wonderful , short , chubby woman- a wife and mother. I really admired her. She was never going to be able to wear a bikini, and she did not care!

  I adore Tina Fey from " 30 rock" . Women seem to love her character, Liz Lemon. I will never forget the episode when she set on a jury and the crime was an older woman who grew tired of babysitting her coworkers and set fire to the place. the last thing the older woman said to Lemon was " I get 3 meals a day served to me and the door opened for me, do you?"

  The best sex scene I ever saw featuring a disabled person was "coming Home"with Jane Fonda and Jon Voight. Hot. The movie " Fried Green Tomatoes" had two actors, the husband and wife who were quite chubby. There were no sex scenes but it was implied they had sex!!! Ordinary, fat folks have sex!!
• 

  bigmouth

  Thanks guys for the thought you've put in. I didn't expect so much and the topic took an interesting turn for me.

  I need to let you know that I've had some experience in the disability world. Much of my growing up was in a family home that cared for blind teens, the blindness always from birth and due to brain injury or alcohol.

  My own life deteriorated with major clinical depression that has meant long months in psychiatric hospitals over many years. As I learnt more about my illness and how to live with it I became open with people about it and that was good for me and most others.

  I have since become aware that extreme prejudice still exists toward those with mental illness although it is not considered PC to admit it. For the last year I have kept my illness quiet and found things easier. I notice people will joke to me about mental illness etc. not realising my background. The double standard exists.

  People are usually amazed when they find out about me as I know how to function in public but I wish I could get by with being a little more 'real'