That:
Man IS a soul,
Christ was CREATED,
Holy Spirit a real person, or God's active force?
Do you still believe in hell as "the common grave"?
I'm not condeming, just inquiring.
TRC
*The most precious of all gifts, is UNCONDITIONAL Love*
Do you still believe the WTS doctine's?
by TheRecordCollector 32 Replies latest jw experiences
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butalbee
No way in hell. I believe their is a hell, I believe their is a heaven. If their is good, their is evil...
I can't imagine a child molester, just "dying", going to sleep, whatever, he deserves to suffer, in life and in death. The common grave crap is crap, misinterpretations. Ask any dub their definition of Hades and it will be wrongly defined.
I believe soul is eternal, not immortal.
JW is BS.
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Dutchy
I really don't know what I believe in anymore. I'm not even sure that there is a God.
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2SYN
I believe in exactly what science can prove. This means that my 'beliefs' are flexible enough to be defined many times over, and as such they are not clamped into one mindset forever.
Unfortunately, according to most religious people I've met, this automatically makes me an unbeliever.
I suppose you have to be willing to have the wool pulled over your eyes in quite a big way to believe most of the teachings of the WTBTS. Unfortunately I was indoctrinated from birth, so it took me over a decade before I had developed sufficiently powerful logical faculties to question those teachings, and finally to prove them wrong to myself. In fact, if I'd known even a fraction of what was really happening (the UN thing, the blood scandal, the child molestation, shunning etc (although I did know a bit about shunning!)), I would have left much earlier. Massive suckage here, people.
I do know this one thing for certain: all humans have follow-the-leader chromosomes. I'm not disputing the fact that I have them too, of course I do. They have as much of an effect on me as on anyone else. But I have managed to avoid the Dub starve-lock where the mind reinforces the perception of an invisible leader to such a degree that it the entire mind is taken over - this is what we call the point of no Return.
My opinion on the matter is simple. If your Organization does not allow you to independently research and confirm it's teachings, it is a complete and utter sham, not even worthy of being called a religion at all.
New research in the scientific community on the functioning of cultural memes, combined with our follow-the-leader DNA patterns, has led me to the conclusion that in fact most forms of religion are strikingly similiar to the WTBTS, considering the fact that they use exactly the same imprinting methods to gain followers.
Not that I'm taking anyone down. The only thing I believe in more strongly than all of the above poppycock is that people should be allowed to decide for themselves what faith they want to pursue, and whether or not they want to worship 'God'. All my other petty mumblings fall along the wayside next to this one. For you Dubs (undoubtably quite a few, we know that there are silent observers here, we're not idiots you know) who are reading this, sorry folks, you are trapped.
Maybe I should repeat something that I once said out loud to a Dub in a mall not too long ago: Your mind is it's own beautiful prisoner.
The earlier in the forenoon you take the sun bath, the greater will be the beneficial effect, because you get more of the ultra-violet rays, which are healing. - The Golden Age
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WindRider
Dutchy, Im with you on this. After spending 35yrs "growing up in the truth" and now having been out for 7, I still dont know what is real, what is "the truth" or frankly if there even is such a thing.
It makes it very difficult for me now, raising my 14 and 7yr. old to know how to answer or even direct their spiritual lives.
I think I have just pared it down to some basics:
I believe that there is hopefully a God, whether he is the Almighty from the Bible or not, I dont know.
I believe that there is much good, healing, peace and knowledge to be found in his creations around us.
I hope that there is an afterlife, altho' I personally tend to think there is no place of eternal torment called Hell, I do hope there is a Heaven. Maybe that is foolish to think I can believe in one without the other. But I cant imagine a God who is loving choosing to punish anyone with eternal torment and suffering....I mean we arent just talking a few days, years, we are talking never ending!
I do not believe in a paradise earth anymore.
And these are about all I believe with any certainty and even then I know they are subject to change as I grow and learn more info. The thought that scares me is that perhaps the Atheists are right! If I find they are, I will accept that because I would always rather know the facts, the real truth about a situation rather than just live in false albeit blissful ignorance.Sincerely, Windrider
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ashitaka
I think I just don't really care right now. I guess I'm just apathetic.
God, and all of the messes that go along with believing in Him, seem so trivial right now.
ashi
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Kophagangelos
Yes, I believe it!
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Gopher
Interesting topic.
I don't really "preach" what I believe any more, I mostly keep it to myself. There are some things the WT taught that made sense, such as man is a soul and Christ was created. There are other things that the WT teaches/does that is very harmful, and I choose to stubbornly disagree with those teachings / policies.
However if people choose to believe differently than I do, it's not terribly important to me. As long as they allow me the same elbow room.
Windrider brings up a valid concern, and that is, what do we teach our children? I have a 3-year-old daughter, what will I tell her? I won't be dogmatic. I think I will present her with varying viewpoints and ask her to reason on them (when her age is appropriate, of course). As long as she shows love and goodness in her heart, what personal beliefs she chooses to have will be up to her.
J.R.Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910) -
WindRider
Gopher, I agree with your live and let live philosophy. And also sharing what you know with our children and letting them pick and choose what makes sense for them. One thing I do know is that I will not force my viewpoints on my boys, when it comes to religion or the lack of it in their lives.
I have decided to just be honest with them; tell them that Mommy was in a religion for so long that taught harmful and erroneous beliefs, that I am not so sure myself, nor do I have all the answers. And I tell them what things I am learning/have learned since leaving the JW's and what things make sense to me and why. But I always stress to them, esp. my 14 yr.old that I know he has a brain and a good head on his shoulders and so if something I beleive doesnt make sense to him then that's ok. I will always support him finding his own answers and appreciate talking with him about his outlooks on life, God, religion, etc.
Basically, I try to act as a guide and sounding board for him as he learns from his experiences in school, with his friends and the world around him. He seems to appreciate my honesty. I do however, point out the harsh realities of my former religion and the dangers should he ever think of returning to the Witnesses. His father is still one (altho' in name only) and all of his relatives here are elders, pioneers, etc. Fortunately, he has voiced many times that "ny religion that would require a parent to kill their child by denying them a blood transfusion, I have absolutely no use for and they can go...@@%$#, (well you know )
Sincerely, Windrider
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Adonai438
I'll answer your questions with the scriptural proof. May be long but at least it will show the basis for the beliefs
Man IS a soul?
Nope-
People are made up of three parts (a picture of God’s being- we are made in his image)Body, Soul, & Spirit.(1st Thess.5:23)The body is separate from the soul- ‘soul’ is used to denote the whole person but is also a separate part of a person.--Body and soul can be separated and are both perishable- can die: (Matt.10:28)
The Spirit is separate from the soul and can be divided (Heb4:12)
The soul leaves at death (1 Kings 17:21-22)
The spirit leaves at death (Luke 23:46 & Acts 7:59)
Christ was CREATED,
Nope--
John 1 specificly verse 3 where it says everything that has ever been created was created by Christ. Christ could not have very well created himself therefor he was not a created being.Holy Spirit a real person, or God's active force?
Again..........Nope---
He is described as a "he,him,his,I" in scripture, JWs try to 'fix' that but it doesn't change the originals. He has a will, he loves, he speaks, he gets angry, he can be sinned against, etc....you still believe in hell as "the common grave"?
Nah---------
HELL: Three words that are translated ‘Hell’--
Tartarous is used only once in 2 Peter 2:4 to describe the place God had prepared for devil and his angels- this may also be what is called the abyss where Satan will be bound for the 1000 year reign of Christ.
Hades/Sheol is used for the physical grave and the spiritual hell the wicked will suffer in until their judgment at the end of time. This is conscious as discussed above. Again pictured in Luke 16. Also notice 1 Peter 3:18-19- Spirits in prison.
Gehenna is used of Hell, The Lake of Fire, where Satan, his demons, and all wicked people will spend eternity after their judgment at the end of time.Rev.20:15-wicked people, Rev.20:10-Satan, Rev. 19:20-Beast & False Prophet.
Gehenna too is conscious. The wicked that are cast into it after judgement are NOT merely annihilated or cease to exist. For example: Rev. 19:20 is where the Beast and the False Prophet are ‘thrown’ . After this is the millennial kingdom-- 1000 year reign of Christ on Earth(Rev.20:4-6At the end of the 1000 years Satan is free for a short time to deceive who he will to fight against God (Rev.20:7-8). God consumes the people following Satan with fire(Rev.20:9and casts Satan into the Lake of Fire(Rev20:10). But read [b]Rev. 20:10 closely-- When Satan is thrown in he is with the beast and they False Prophet and they will be together tormented day and night forever and ever. The Beast and False Prophet were thrown in 1000 years before Satan but are clearly still there! This is the same Lake of Fire as the wicked are destined to so why would it not also be eternal punishment for them too? The answer is, it is eternal.
God does not want people to go to hell but this is the punishment for not choosing him.[b]2 Peter 3:9,Heb.9:27, Matt.25:46