She's back and I could really use some advice!

by OneDayillBeFree 21 Replies latest jw experiences

  • OneDayillBeFree
    OneDayillBeFree

    I dont know where to begin. I do know it might get lengthy so I'm sorry for that. And also many thanks to all who read the whole thing. I'll do my best to use small paragraphs as much as possible.

    I really need some advice. Some opinions at least.

    It's about the only person who I used to trust. The only friend I used to have. In my earlier posts I mentioned a girl who was a non baptized publisher who hated the organization and who wanted to leave it all behind and supported my desicions to fade away, but changed her mind and became pro-JW after visiting Bethel. So after that, I decided to stop talking to her and she did the same. It almost felt like I had been disfellowshipped from her as we wouldnt even say "hi" nor look at each other at the meetings. It was a good 8 months since we had spoken. But three weeks ago, that all changed.

    I decided to go see a movie with a group of brothers not knowing that she had also been invited. So when I turned my head to see who was coming I almost froze when I saw her face. I avoided and she ignored me as usual. I had forgotten who she was. She had become a stranger me. She was just somebody that I used to know. It felt strange. Sad in a way.

    So after the movies the brothers decided to go eat, and I went with them after she and another sister said that they were going home. One again, to my amazement, she showed up to the restaurant. I ate my food but spoke very little, anxious to go leave. And when it came time to go I said goodbye to everyone, her eyes met mine and we had a very long stare. It felt like she wanted to say something, I could see it in her eyes, but she remained silent.

    When I get home I decide to go to sleep because I just didnt want to think about anything.

    Then my phone vibrated. It was a text by a number I hadnt seen before. This is what is read, "Hi _____, I'm really sorry for everything that's happened and for how things have turned out between us. You have every right to be angry and I'm not expecting a reply but I just wanted to say I'm sorry. I wish we could be friends again. I've missed you so much."

    I knew exactly who it was. But my mind didnt want to accept it. I thought I was dreaming. I began to ask myself questions. How? Why? Am I angry? No I wasnt. Not anymore. You see, the thing about me is, is that no matter what a person does to me I can't me angry or mad at them forever. And I certainly wont shun someone like the Watchtower teaches. I just try to remember the good, ignore the bad, and carry on. And she hasnt been in this relgion as long as I have, it is a cult and I understand that she could be easily manipulated by it just like I was.

    So after much thought, I simply responded, "It's okay."

    Then she replied, "Thank you." I just sat there on my bed thinking about it. Remembering the past. I felt a small wave of pain building up inside after looking at the whole thing.

    Then she texted me again, "Would it be okay if I called you?" I responded, "okay". Then she called. We talked. The entire night. About everything. And heres where it starts getting interesting.

    We eventually started talking about our feelings for each other. She said that she would think about me constantly. She said she still had feelings for me. I told her that I didnt want to have a repeat of the past but being honest, I would find myself thinking about her as well. I said that there were lingering feelings for her too.

    She spoke about how she is getting pressured to get baptized and how she still hates some of the things in the religion but that she "thinks its the truth" She asked me how I felt about the organization to which I stopped and thought about it. If I said that I still wanted to leave it all behind we would end it there. But then I thought, what if I tell her that I am okay with it instead, let her go through everything in the Org like I did, and then watch her wake up to the truth about the "truth" once I show her several things about the religion but not in a "this is a cult! Get out now!" kind of way but more in a "wow I didnt know about this, did you?" kind of way. Like If I'm just waking up. Planting seeds of doubt in her mind. I figured I had nothing to lose so I did the latter.

    We have since been seeing each other everyday for a week so far and I tested the waters two days ago by telling her about how "a brother" had told me that the old Watchtower mags used to have a cross on the cover and that seemed strange to me. She didnt believe me and said she didnt know about that and we decided to google old watchtowers and "confirmed" it. When I saw her looking puzzled in my mind I said, "you havent seen anything yet."

    Something happened today though, something that has changed things again. We went to a park and we were just walking along a lonely trail. We had a great time. We ended up on a small bridge just looking out at the beautiful scenery. Then, we just stared at each other again. And just like that, we kissed. It was unexpected and so amazing to say the least. I couldnt believe what was happening. It was something we had never done in the past together. She then asked me, "Did you feel anything?" And I said, "yes, I did" then she replied, "me too." We held each other for a long time then walked back and kept talking and laughing.

    Before we left we kissed again, this time longer than the first. Then she looked deep into my eyes and said those three famous words that I thought I'd never hear a girl say to me, "I love you." I just stared back at her and responded, "I love you too." We held each other again and then I left.

    Now I had told myself I wouldnt get involved with any girl while inside, but she isnt any girl. I truly believe that I can wake her up to the real "Truth". I have decided to pretend that I am still trying to believe while at the same time pretending like I'm finding out that its all a lie and a cult but this time, being with her while it happens to make it look like I am discovering things for the first time. Have any of you tried this before? Did it work? What do you think I should do? What advice do you have? How hard is this to wake someone up completely? What are my chances of that happeninng and being successful? I want to wake her up slowly, unlike last time. I want her to see things and discover things for herself. She is very smart, and I know she can wake up from this.

    In the end, I'm going to leave regardless of wether she comes or not. My mind is set on that! If thats the case, I'll have to end it and I know that will probably hurt me more than her but this time I want to at least try. I'm doing this because I want to free someone while I am still in and also because I honestly love her. I know that theres a chance it might not work but I want to be positive for once.

    So again thank you for reading I know it was a lot. Now please give me your thoughts, opinions, ideas, experiences, pros, cons. I'm going to need them all!

    OneDayillBeFree

  • chicken little
    chicken little

    Hej there,

    I can only speak from my own feelings and experiences, so if it is not what you want to hear then sorry. I think that you made a mistake not telling her how you stand, she will feel that you have tricked her into showing her feelings for you under false pretences. The conflict between her feelings for you and the witness mentality will be a real ordeal for her once she realizes that you are no longer a believer. I do not think that it is a good foundation for a relationship to be built on, when you have to be cunning and finding ways to undermine her beliefs, even though you are doing so out of the best motive. Most JWs will become very defensive and experience terrible feelings of discomfort, not good feelings to introduce into a romantic relationship in my opinion.

    Maybe you could come clean with her before you get too deeply involved emotionally. It would be kinder in my opinion. But maybe others have different advice for you.

    I do wish you all the best though.

  • Pams girl
    Pams girl

    Hi there x

    I think if you have any chance of a future together, its best to start off (again) from a truthful standpoint. Being honest and open is the way to go, and although this may lead you to being open to more hurt as far as she is concerned, at least with the truth on the table, you can both decide if you have a future together. I wish you all you wish for yourself, and hope that this story has a happy ending, you sound like you had the "lightening bolt" love moment!

    Be well, laugh often, love much x

  • Flat_Accent
    Flat_Accent

    You know how they say "you shouldn't go into a relationship thinking you can change the other person"? I just think you're setting yourself and her up for heartache, sorry to say. You're convinced on leaving, she isn't and you can't make the decision for her. And if you carry on with a serious relationship, when you do leave that could have some reprecussions for her too. You're also keeping the truth about your own feelings hidden, for your own benefit. So I'd say it's also the better option to tell her.

    If she has a questioning mind, she will leave of her own accord eventually. But there are some people who are so caught up with the org and all its trappings that they will never leave. She probably sees her 'doubting phase' as her decision period. The kind they revel about in the Magazines. She chose the WT, and that will only have strengthened her faith and confidence she got it right.

    You have a hard time ahead, so good luck and best wishes to you.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    but that she "thinks its the truth" = run away!!

    What are my chances of that happeninng and being successful? = Slightly better than zero if you have a degree in a relevant field of psychology.

    I want her to see things and discover things for herself.= Don't tell her anything. Ask a question that undermines the WT being Jehovah's channel then shut up while she answers it.

    Good luck

    Chris

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I am going to try to be as straightforward as I can. Keep in mind that my opinions are just opinions. You and she are experiencing normal things of "liking" another person, but because of the cult experience, you are "loving" each other. It's okay, but don't rush into a relationship thinking that it will be okay because of love. Just let it continue to go at a slow pace. Certainly don't go beyond kissing while you are unsure about her JW thinking. Guilt from reading some WT article or hearing a talk will often change a person's mind about going to the elders about their heavy petting or intercouse. A momentary "copping-a-feel" will cause nights of anxiety.

    However, you don't need to go at a turtle's pace to reveal problems with the JW religion to her. That, you should speed along. It will tell you a bunch about whether you want to even be in a relationship with her. If you fail to manage to get her out, then you will know that there is lots of heartache ahead if you stay together.

    While I agree that she will leave on her own accord eventually if she's unsure, I see no reason not to be her guide. I wish someone guided me out sooner. I would have appreciated them even more than someone who just waited and watched me.

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    Just remember, that by trying to help her see TTATT, you are putting your "fading" status at risk. If she decides that you are sharing apostate materials and reports that to the elders -- or even if she simply goes to the elders for an explanation for what she is seeing and they inquire about the source (YOU) -- you are in DEEP DOO DOO.

    You got many opinions about the fact that you are starting off a new relationship on a lie. Once that is discovered you will run the risk that she will never trust you in any other matter.

    On the other hand, many of us here are in the same situation. We many know TTATT, but we cannot be forthright and honest with our loved one(s) for fear that it will result in our being outted too. I speak however of people who are ALREADY in the committed relationship and NOT someone choosing to BEGIN the relationship on false pretenses.

    OTWO gives an ominous warning -- If she feels guilty about anything that occurs in your relationship and goes to the elders, she will simply be counseled as that's the most they can do to an unbaptised person. On the other hand, you will be seen as someone who stumbled and took advantage of a "new sheep" and you will definiately get The AXE.

    Beware.

    LOVE -- the heart is treacherous.

    Doc

  • finally awake
    finally awake

    I don't know what the chances of success are, but I do know that she's a lucky girl to have someone who cares about her trying to wake her up before she wastes her life on the borg.

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    I don't know. I tend to believe that honesty is the best policy when it comes to revealing your feelings about things. She asked you how you felt and you hesistated to answer. Now you are trying to steer her out of the cult. I guess if you were already married, that is one thing, but going into a relationship trying to change someone?

    I wouldn't put in the effort if I were you. Too much stress.

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    You have good motives---but you have been dishonest while hoping for a particular outcome. So what happens if after all this effort, she doesn't change her mind? The closer you grow, the more distructive this will be when it is all finished. As a friend, you have the option to try to help her out---but as a love interest? Ask yourself this---how would you feel if 3 months from now she tells you her greatest hope was to lead you back to the cult? Now think of how she will feel to learn your goal was to lead her away.

    Relationships feel really good in the beginning. They are exciting and intense. But when that wears off, reality and hard work set in. You don't have the same hope for a future---how can you share it?

    It's a tough spot. Your heart is already wrapped up in it. I hope things work out for the best, and that you choose the best options, even if they are hard.

    C

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