The Great Flash Flood of Noah's Day

by sabastious 17 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    Think about all the people you have ever loved and spent time with. Think about the hard work you and your friends and family have put forth to create a life for yourselves. Think about your grandchildren, your fathers, your mothers and your siblings. Then think about one day a flood coming through and all of the sudden you find yourself one of few survivors as you walk through the wreckage in search of the corpes of your loved ones to bury. This has happened recently in places like Indonesia and Japan. One day they were living their lives and the next they were sorting through carnage and lost loved ones.

    That scene has played out on this planet for as long as humans have been here. For the vast majority of our time here people have considered these tragedies acts of God, when in reality they were just acts of chance. Also given to chance is who lives and who dies. The ones that live are faced with the bitter confusion as to WHY they lived and the others died. What if you knew that a person that died was a better person than you? Would you question their morality? Would you assume that yours is superior because you still breathe and they do not? These were the questions that haunted our ancient ancestors.

    After the peices are picked up and the loved ones buried the survivors tell their tale, but which to tell? Science has proven that when we remember events that have happened in our life that our brain actually has to recreate the event from scratch using memory cells in our brain. Because we know this we also know that any story that has been recorded from some type of oral tradition will be wrong. There is nothing left to chance, we KNOW it will be wrong. However it will be wrong so consistantly that it may be possible to deduce the real events behind the myth.

    The Watchtower teaches, however, that the story is 100% accurate. This is a grave mistake for an entity calling themselves an interpreter of the Bible and a general disservice to the truth. Experiment after experiment has been done in order to prove, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that the Great Flood of the Genesis was NOT a flood that destroyed every living thing on the planet. However it would be easy to misconcieve floods that have occured in our history as global. In fact for some remote people they would have no chance but to think the flood was the entire world and would tell the story as such and henceforth be written down that way.

    Without the shackle of Biblical inerrancy at our ankles we can really dig into the Bible and use our imagination. Consider the following verses in Genesis and read them with an open mind:

    Genesis 7 - 1 The LORD then said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.”

    Now the word "wipe" is an interesting one to use in my opinion. Think of the motion that is required for that word to be used. A start point, a track and an end point. If the writer wanted to depict an obliteration of the earth largely by rainfall, the word wipe doesn't seem ideal to me. However a flash flood, or a tsunami work much better with the word "wipe."

    Rain is mentioned though, but it doesn't seem to be a main factor in the destruction of the earth. It's actually depicted as a first step before the "wiping" takes place. It's essentially saying there will be rain and then God would wipe the earth clean. Which is exactly how a flash flood can work:

    Flash flooding occurs when precipitation falls too quickly on saturated soil or dry soil that has poor absorption ability. The runoff collects in low-lying areas and rapidly flows downhill. Flash floods most often occur in normally dry areas that have recently received precipitation, but may be seen anywhere downstream from the source of the precipitation, even many miles from the source. In areas on or near volcanoes, flash floods have also occurred after eruptions, when glaciers have been melted by the intense heat. Flash floods are known to occur in the highest mountain ranges of the United States and are also common in the arid plains of southwestern United States. Flash flooding can also be caused by extensive rainfall released by hurricanes and other tropical storms , as well as the sudden thawing effect of ice dams. Human activities can also cause flash floods to occur. When dams , constructed for hydro-electricity, have failed, large quantities of water can be released and can destroy everything within its path.

    Further evidence that the flood of the Bible is actually a localized flash flood is Jesus reference to it in the Gospels:

    Matthew 24 - 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

    42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

    Since flash floods often occur in normally dry areas they will always come at a surprise. Jesus actually uses the flood as represenative of his second coming which will come completely unexpectedly.

    As a side note the Book of Daniel metions a destructive flood in it's last days prophecy as well. Jesus may have been expounding upon it.

    Daniel 9 - 25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

    The Bible's great flood seems to be actually describing a localized flash flood. Other theories could include glacier melts and even tsunamis. It's apparent that unexpected natural disasters can create entire new ways of thinking as it did for the oral transmitters of the Flood story. The question is can a localized flood be tied to what ended up in Genesis? I believe so which leads me to a Chinese folklore legend by the name of Fu Xi:

    Creation legend of Fu Xi

    According to legend, the land was swept by a great flood and only Fu Xi and his sister Nüwa survived. They retired to Kunlun Mountain , where they prayed for a sign from the Emperor of Heaven . The divine being approved their union and the siblings set about procreating the human race. In order to speed up the process, Fu Xi and Nüwa used clay to create human figures, and with the power divine entrusted to them made the clay figures come alive. Fu Xi then came to rule over his descendants, although reports of his long reign vary between sources, from 115 years (2852–2737 BCE) to 116 years (2952–2836 BCE).

    -Sab

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    I would like to build a little more on your point regarding Matthew 24:39. It is plain that the passage is talking about an event that is unexpected and comes as a surprise. "They knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away." Literally, the Greek says that "they knew nothing until (ouk egnòsan heòs)" the flood came. The example of the flood is mentioned alongside other unexpected sudden events, like lightning and a thief breaking into a person's house. The NWT however translates ouk egnòsan heòs as "they took no note until". This implies that they did know something but chose not to take note of it. And virtually every single reference to this passage in the publications assumes that Noah gave a warning and the people before the flood "took no note" of this warning. An example of this can be found in the 15 September 1986 Watchtower: "Advance warning had been given by Noah for many years, but that generation refused to believe it. They surely had never experienced such a flood. So with things continuing as before, the warning fell on deaf ears. They 'took no note.' It mattered not to them that the warning came from their Creator through Noah" (p. 5). But there is no reference to such a warning at all in the text itself. It doesn't say the people took no note of a warning that the flood was coming, it says that the people knew nothing at all. So here the NWT has rendered the text in a way that facilitates the desired interpretation, and it is one that is self-serving because the preaching work done by JWs today is taken to be antitypical to the presumed "preaching work of Noah" before the flood (which typifies Armageddon).

    We can compare the wording in the text with other passages phrased similarly in our sources. The closest parallel can be found in 1 Maccabees:

    1 Maccabees 12:28-30: "When the enemy [Demetrius' troops] heard that Jonathan and his troops were prepared for battle, they were extremely terrified. So they lit fires in their camp and retreated. Jonathan and his troops didn’t know about this until (ouk egnòsan heòs) morning because they saw the fires burning. Then Jonathan tried to pursue them, but he couldn’t catch them since they had already crossed the Eleutherus River".

    It isn't that Jonathan ignored some warning that Demetrius was going to retreat. Demetrius camouflaged his retreat by setting up campfires to make Jonathan's troops think his men were still encamped. Thus Jonathan had no knowledge of the retreat UNTIL morning came and he was able to see in the daylight that the camp was deserted, but by then it was too late.

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    One other point about Noah's supposed preaching: Was he preaching to the hybrid demon-woman offspring too? Could any of them have been saved even if they had wanted to enter the ark?

  • redvip2000
    redvip2000

    I have thought of this. Ancient civilizations have a long history of atributing natural occurences to God or the spiritual realm.

    Back then, all things had a spiritual connection, from thunder, eclipse, rainbows, etc. Simply put, everything was a sign that God was either happy (or not) with man !

    It is not unreasonable to think that ancient Jews, were as supersticious as the Mayans, Egyptians, and all the other ancient civilizations.

  • Amelia Ashton
    Amelia Ashton

    Do we know how far afield humans had spread prior to the flood or how many there were by this time to actually preach to?

    How much time did Noah need to spend away from home travelling to far away territory to preach but still building his ark and still continuing to earn enough to feed his family?

    Even if there were 8 people full time piosneering did they give a witness to everyone?

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    The NWT however translates ouk egnòsan heòs as "they took no note until". This implies that they did know something but chose not to take note of it.

    Hello Leolaia, it could also mean that they merely had the capacity to understand what was happening, but fell short. It could have been that the facts were there, but motivation and effort was required to put them all together which they lacked. Luke 19 has an interesting possible parallel:

    Luke 19: 41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.

    ^ Luke 19 is connected to the Daniel scripture in my OP. Jesus was recorded saying this because it allegedly was the end of the time period spelled out by groups of "sevens" in the later half of Daniel chapter 9. It's almost as if Jesus is saying, "You guys didn't get it, some did, but most didn't, again."

    -Sab

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Flash floods are a big hazard in dry areas.

    The lack of greenery/shrubbery to absorb sudden, intense downpours makes a flash flood much more powerful in arid areas.

    Another factor can be an intense rainstorm in the headwaters of a stream.

    Take a look at the "Big Thompson" flood, here in Colorado - cloudburst at the headwaters caused that deadly flood, despite the forested slopes.

    http://mojavedesert.net/glossary/flash-flood.html

    http://www.theweatherchannelkids.com/weather-ed/weather-encyclopedia/flooding/historical-floods/big-thompson-canyon-flood/

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    One other point about Noah's supposed preaching: Was he preaching to the hybrid demon-woman offspring too? Could any of them have been saved even if they had wanted to enter the ark?

    The idea of Noah being a preacher was an idea that Paul had and that's all it was, an idea. If you just have the Torah you don't get a reason for why God saved Noah, just that he "found favor in him." It seems reasonable to me for the writer of the Torah to keep those kind of details secret because if they were included in detail then they would just be used to create pigeonholed doctrine used to enslave others which is counterintuitive which was to preserve a message.

    Not to say that Paul was utterly wrong in his idea, but if anything it requires elaboration. What was he preaching? Well, since he was the only person in the whole world (from the stories perspective) that wasn't evil to the core he probably had some beefs with the people around him. He could have been a righteous war hero, a philanthropist a number of other roles that the Old Testament favors. The point of the story is that he was chosen because of what he was doing. He stood out and was noticed by God. Only after that identification was the test of faith even considered.

    -Sab

  • Wizard of Oz
    Wizard of Oz

    In their book "Keeper of Genesis, a quest for the hidden legacy of mankind." Robert Bauval&Graham Hancock explain by how many years The Sphinx predates the Great Pyramid and the existance of Flood Evidence along it's flanks by a flood from twelve thousand years ago. Was that Noah's Flood??

  • Chariklo
    Chariklo
    Now the word "wipe" is an interesting one to use in my opinion. Think of the motion that is required for that word to be used. A start point, a track and an end point. If the writer wanted to depict an obliteration of the earth largely by rainfall, the word wipe doesn't seem ideal to me. However a flash flood, or a tsunami work much better with the word "wipe."

    Interesting. One search page http://bible.cc/genesis/7-4.htm gives "blot out" and "destroy" instead of "wipe" in a number of translations.

    The Jerusalem Bible is the one I used for years before focusing on the New World Translation, and I've now gone back tpo it, though it's not on that search page. The JB gives, for Genesis 7:4

    "For in seven days' time I mean to make it rain on the earth for forty days and nights, and I will rid the earth of every living thing that I have made."

    Anyway, flash flood or not, wiping, blotting out or ridding or not, I am struggling with the idea of a God who decides to destroy every living thing that he has made. I had this sicussion with a sister the othre day. Why would God destroy everything, I asked.

    "Because they were all sinning" came the reply. "

    "What, even the babiea?" I asked.

    She insisted that the babies would be destroyed because of the sins of their parents. When I said no-one could be more inocent than a baby she spoke of Adam's sin affecting every one.

    A God who decides to destroy every living thing he has made because some, even many are wicked, sounds to me more like an toddler having a tantrum than an almighty, merciful, just and wise God.

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