The Great Flash Flood of Noah's Day

by sabastious 17 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    A God who decides to destroy every living thing he has made because some, even many are wicked, sounds to me more like an toddler having a tantrum than an almighty, merciful, just and wise God.

    I believe the whole account of Abraham arguing with God about the people of Sodom, in the same Book of Genesis, was put there to answer your question. The answer is that Noah was the only one worth saving and his family survived because of him. The fact that the exchange between Abraham and YHWH is even in there means that the people of that day thought similarly. They didn't want to have God's that killed people because of whims either. Then in the very next book we have Moses arguing with God about killing the Israelites. That theme is in there for a very specific purpose.

    -Sab

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    One search page http://bible.cc/genesis/7-4.htm gives "blot out" and "destroy" instead of "wipe" in a number of translations.

    "Blot out" and "destroy" would work well too since a immensely powerful flood often takes everything with it. Men, animals, trees and buildings are just swept away into total oblivion never to be found again.

    -Sab

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    sabastious...Well, there are two related things under discussion in the passage that one must distinguish: the event itself and the time of the event. The disciples know that the Lord will be coming, which is something that the world as a whole does not know. But even the disciples do not know when the Lord will be coming. The example of the flood was drawn to illustrate this point: "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only" (v. 36), "Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming" (v. 42), "Therefore you must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect" (v. 44), "the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know" (v. 50), etc. This is the same theme found in Luke 19:41, which is characteristically Lukan btw and should be distinguished from the texts in Matthew (which do not talk about "the times of the Gentiles" and "the time of your visitation"). The point in present passage is that the time is not knowable even for the elect, and so it will still be a surprise for those expecting it. Those who aren't expecting anything, of course, would be surprised as well. The examples chosen to illustrate this point all vary in how knowable the event itself is. In the case of the parable of the foolish virgins, the arrival of the bridegroom was precisely what the virgins were staying up waiting for; they represent the elect expecting the parousia. In the case of the parable of the faithful and wise servant and the parable of the talents, the servants similarly had a reasonable expectation that their master would return. But in the case of the illustration of the thief coming in the middle of the night, the event itself is not something anyone normally expects when going to bed at night. One may realize it could always be an unlikely possibility, but it is not an event that is expected to happen. The flood is another example of an unexpected event and while it was something that Noah and his family expected, as they prepared for it specifically without knowing when it would occur, the passage makes plain that people in general had no expectation of it. They just carried on with life as usual and knew nothing about it until the event itself came. The main point I'm making is that there is nothing in the passage that says that the people took no note of a warning that Noah had given them (nor is there anything in Genesis about Noah warning them). It simply states that people were ignorant of what was going to happen. It doesn't imply that there were signs preceding the event that one could take the effort to put together to figure out what was going to happen. Similarly in the case of the thief breaking into the house at night, there isn't any advance warning that the break-in is going to happen. It just happens. And even if one knows that it is going to happen, the parable makes plain that the person still wouldn't know when the event would happen, for "if the householder had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have watched and would not have let his house be broken into" (v. 43). As for the parousia, there are to be signs that the event would happen, just like there is with the fig tree (v. 32-33), but that does not mean that the events in the other examples are equally discernable in advance; as mentioned already, there is no advance sign that a break-in will happen. But all these examples are valid examples of the unexpectedness of the time of the event, which is what this portion of the discourse is specifically concerned with.

  • mP
    mP

    Firstly we must understand that the story of Noah itself has many strange errors that can only be explained as the result of two separate stories that have been woven together.

    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/Noah_enter.html

    Seven days before the flood began.The day that the flood began.
    Genesis 7:7-10
    And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark.... And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
    Genesis 7:11-13
    In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark.

    The flood lasted 40 days.The flood lasted 150 days.
    Genesis 7:17
    And the flood was forty days upon the earth.
    Genesis 7:24
    And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

    Genesis 8:3
    And the waters returned from off the earth contin

    There are plenty more but just these two are impossible to explain if the event really happend.

  • mP
    mP

    @WIzard

    I have heard in the past that the Nile used to flood a lot more than it does today. The Giza complex itself is quite close even today to the Nile thus in the past. It is not unimaginable to think that the river was closer to the complex and thus flooded it during the flood season. I have also heard that the area ismuch drier today than inthe past and the desert may not have been the same barren place it is today back then.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    The main point I'm making is that there is nothing in the passage that says that the people took no note of a warning that Noah had given them (nor is there anything in Genesis about Noah warning them). It simply states that people were ignorant of what was going to happen.

    Indeed, and we are to assume that when Jesus spoke of the days of Noah, he was speaking about the same account we read today in Genesis. It really seems apparent to me that Jesus in Matthew 24 is trying to expound upon the flood story and adapt it to what was a modernist view. Likewise today we have to make the appropriate adaptations.

    A theif is something you prepare for in a unique way. Just recently my car stereo was stolen out of my car in my own driveway. I had neglected to lock it one night and that just so happened to be the night my house was targetted by a roaming car theif. The responsibility lies solely on my shoulders for not adequately securing my belongings. The theif is a theif and they are always a concern. This is why I believe Jesus was recorded using this analogy. For his followers it was not a question as to IF he was to return, it was when. The disciples seem constantly on edge over this elusive fact. Jesus does his best to explain that it's something that must be prepared for in a specific way. It's not something that is preset, but rather something that has to unfold in ways that are hard to predict.

    He also uses the image of a watchtower and watchman. This goes with the theif in the night analogy for further elaboration on the topic. Jesus is probably saying that one of the main problems with the people of Noah's day was general awareness of their environment. I think that's why the rainbow analogy is used in Genesis. Noah and his family were unaware of basic facts about light and how it worked in conjunction with water. A good way to say they were so distracted as to miss things right in front of their eyes.

    -Sab

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Firstly we must understand that the story of Noah itself has many strange errors that can only be explained as the result of two separate stories that have been woven together.

    If this were true it wouldn't change much, it would only offer insight into the compilation of the product, of which the purpose was to preserve knowledge. I wouldn't be so quick to call the oddities in the document bona fide errors. It may be an unknown style that was used for unknown purposes.

    -Sab

  • mP
    mP

    MP

    Firstly we must understand that the story of Noah itself has many strange errors that can only be explained as the result of two separate stories that have been woven together.

    If this were true it wouldn't change much, it would only offer insight into the compilation of the product, of which the purpose was to preserve knowledge. I wouldn't be so quick to call the oddities in the document bona fide errors. It may be an unknown style that was used for unknown purposes.

    -Sab

    MP

    These errors are within literally a few dozen words of each other. The q is not if they are present they are, check for yourself. If the facts and figures are different, somebody changed the story somewhere on more than one occassion. How do we know other parts of the story were not changed or poisoned with other thoughts ? How do we know God was even involved at all ? Perhaps they also inserted the word about global flood etc...?

    When is a story with mistakes truth and when does it become a lie ? Why whould we believe Noahs story but not the dreamtime of the Ausrtalian aboriginies ?

    If im wrong about the scriptures i posted feel free to correct me, but until then the only thing that can be said its sad God cannot protect his own history and message to man.

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