Why is it that most atheists are humanists at heart and that most are more prone to be lovers of mankind rather than godkind ?
A reason why most religious theological teachings are sociologically dangerous and damaging
by thetrueone 233 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Reverend Chip
Sab:
" he seems to be completely ignorant to what the Bible says"
Boy, you really haven't listened to Hitchens much, have you?
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tec
Thanks, Sab.
Yes, Cofty, I thought the point of your comment was about divisiveness. Which is created by atheists as well as theists.
How can you really love somebody if you believe they are an enemy of your god?
I can answer only for me, and it is an easy answer. Because Christ said to do so (love enemy as well as friend), and more than that He also said not to judge. If you aren't judging whether someone else is good or bad (or irrational or rational), or God-approved or not, it is amazingly easy to love them, to look past what you might notice as flaws, because you know very well that you have flaws just as big, if not bigger. Mostly, its amazingly easy when you keep your eyes on yourself and your own behavior, rather than looking at the behavior of others. Knowing that God wants all men to turn and be saved helps to put things into perspective as well.
Some believers might think atheists (or whomever) are going to suffer for all eternity. But not all. I would guess, if you include Buddhists and Jews and universalists and non-hell-believing Christians, and other smaller religions or faiths (wicca, etc), that you will find that there are more who do not believe that those who do not view the world as they do are going to suffer for all eternity. Certainly, I do not.
the fact that you view "faith" as a virtue - of course I must judge you as irrational
I don't recall stating that I view faith as a virtue. Perhaps it is in some cases. In other cases, it might be following one's reason and the evidence presented to them. So then it is no more a virtue than is accepting evolution. Perhaps in some cases it is a simple gift... no merit on the one who recieves that gift; simply based on God's own purpose.
Virtue or flaw does not necessarily enter the equation. So there is nothing to judge... though the judgment itself is hardly 'of course'; and that is one of the reasons judging should be left to the wayside.
Peace,
tammy
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tec
NC - Speaking in general here, but thinking that you are superior in some way (especially where it concerns thinking and reasoning ability) is what I think is arrogant. Thinking that non-believer is somehow better than someone of faith. Or thinking that you aren't also wrong about a million different things, same as any theist. Remember that I already stated that this pertains to both believers and non-believers.
As for people suffering while churches, and crosses, and religious material is being built and printed... do not forget all the homeless shelters and charity work and food given to the hungry that is also done by those same churches and people of faith. Just to keep things in perspective.
Peace,
tammy
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tec
Why is it that most atheists are humanists at heart and that most are more prone to be lovers of mankind rather than godkind ?
I don't see this to be the case, so I cannot answer the question other than to state that.
What I see is that people can be humanist at heart, regardless of whether they are atheist or theist. Some theists turn to their creator to teach them to be 'humanist' when or if their 'heart' fails to do so. Some atheists turn to those they love and admire to teach them to be so, for the same reason. Some never become 'humanist' in either 'camp'.
Peace,
tammy
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sabastious
Boy, you really haven't listened to Hitchens much, have you?
The Bible paints a picture of an ultimately loving creator who undertakes the task to rights all that is wrong and bring humanity to eternal bliss. To paint him as a monster by unnecessarily focusing on the negative parts of the story is a common fallacy that he furthered and now Dawkin's has taken over. It's wrong to think of the YHWH/Christ character as morally inferior to scientific morality.
-Sab
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NewChapter
Well, I don't think I'm superior, but naturally I think some ideas are superior to others---we all do. What I have found with some religious people---and certainly not all---is that they find atheists arrogant when they won't concede that there is good reason for belief.
And as I pointed out in my post, an argument can be made that religion is responsible for charity work etc. My point was simply that from the viewpoint of an atheist---it seems wasteful to use so much of our riches to build castles in the sky when we need more castles right here. That is from an atheist's standpoint though---and it would be odd if we saw it any other way.
I don't claim that believers are unable to think critically about certain things, but one thing I have learned from this board, is they don't think critically about their belief. But it is offensive to say so---and yet---that is what I have seen. I was that way once also, but have learned a great deal about who I used to be by watching believers now. I have said repeatedly that thinking becomes very liquid, forming and reforming to make room for belief. That's not something that can be done with other issues---but always with belief it is an option. I have found it fascinating, frustrating, amusing, and inevitable. Again, to say so can be taken as an insult, but it's simply an observation.
I am not right about everything, and some things are simply opinion with no necessary right or wrong. But there are other things based on evidence, where 2 things simply cannot be true---or 20----or a thousand. It is impossible, and eventually we settle on the thing we believe is true. We do so based on evidence---or based on faith. It is a fundamentally different way of viewing the world, so there will always be conflict.
When I talk about religious people in general terms, I always get called on the carpet for not including a paragraph or three distinguishing exactly which kind of religious person I mean, validating some over others, and mainly assuring everyone I am not speaking about them. It is quite tiring, as I spoke in generalities for a reason. Now when terms like arrogant and atheist are thrown about---perhaps I should insist on 3 paragraphs every single time to assure everyone that this does not mean all atheists, and this would qualify as arrogant behavior, and these atheists are okay, while these are a bit uppity, and THOSE uppity ones are the ones being discussed.
NC
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thetrueone
.. do not forget all the homeless shelters and charity work and food given to the hungry that is also done by those same churches and people of faith. Just to keep things in perspective.
Thanks for pointing that out Tec., the reason why I put MOST in the thread topic.
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Reverend Chip
Sab:
" It's wrong to think of the YHWH/Christ character as morally inferior to scientific morality."
Move the goalposts much? You called Hitchens ignorant! Put up or retract!
Meanwhile, enjoy this free response to the distraction you offered instead of an answer:
"Now, let’s take a case of someone who’s been dealt a bad hand: what about Fraulein Friesel in Austria whose father kept her in a dungeon where she didn’t see daylight for twenty-four years and came down most nights to rape and to sodomize her, often in front of the children…
"I want you just to take a moment to—since you’re so interested in the downtrodden and the helpless—imagine how she must have begged him. Imagine how she must have pleaded. Imagine for how long. Imagine how she must of prayed everyday, how she must have beseeched Heaven. Imagine, for twenty-four years.
"And no. No answer at all. Nothing! No-thing! NOTHING! Imagine how those children must have felt. Now, you say, ‘That’s all right that she went through that, because she’ll get a better deal in another life.’ I ask you if you can be morally or ethically serious… And Heaven did watch it with indifference, because it knows that that score will later on be settled. So it was well worth her going through it — she’ll have a better time next time. I don’t see how you can look anyone—ANYONE—-in the face, or live with yourself and say anything so hideously, wickedly immoral as that, or even imply it."
-- Christopher Hitchens
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NewChapter
LOL---Romney just said that people are trying to impose a state religion---and that religion is called secularism.