Gutless WTS Leadership From the "Confidentiality" Letter

by LostGeneration 49 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • LostGeneration
    LostGeneration

    @blond-moment- Exactly, how hard is it to call for some help. Yet the WTS is so concerned about their precious reputation, and that of JAH that they can't focus for one second on the person in need.

    @ wha happened and zid- The control is getting so over the top. The WTS doesn't trust their elders at all any more, thus detailed instructions to CALL LEGAL any time their head starts to hurt.

    @ Bungi Bill- Sorry to hear how the elders dealt with your situation, it certainly does make your blood boil, doesn't it? Having blue collar workers acting as spokesmen for the ALMIGHTY GOD himself doesn't quite work out for those in need, now does it?

    @BOTR- Downright criminal, isn't it? Right you are that they can't be held liable for a suicide. But they still can't give the common sense advice to get that person to a professional? Why not? It boggles my mind.

    @blindnomore- you have a response!

    @sab- Yeah elders don't like it when you say you are consulting a mental health professional. Like Amelia said they think the cure all is talking to the man upstairs in a one way conversation.

    @Amelia - You make a good point. I wonder if there are some court cases out there where someone went through with it after being abused in a judicial committee.

  • LostGeneration
    LostGeneration

    Page 2 replies:

    @Mr Flipper- I keep thinking that nothing else will shock me coming from the WTS. But this advice from the WTS did it again. Right your are that they are a CORPORATION at the core, and all they are concerned about is making money and staying away from liability.

    @ Broken Promises- It really is that simple, a person who feels suicidal NEEDS PROFESSIONAL HELP. Is it really necessary for a law to be passed REQUIRING someone to report stuff like this. I guess it may be.

    @designs - Probably a full frontal labotomy in my case! I'm still recovering!

    @lost lamb- Spot on. A JC is just an added stress to the so-called "offender" How these elders call themselves spiritual doctors is beyond me.

    @moshe- Yep, the first thing they ask is "Why have you been missing meetings?" followed up by "We haven't seen you in service much lately." Bastards.

    @TD - I agree with you there, though I have little to no legal experience. I think there was some blurb in the recent elders book about how it may not be necessary to hold a JC for someone who attempted suicide but was not successful.

    Can someone PM me a link to the new book, the link I have bookmarked seems to have been taken down, and I'd like to look at what the latest Flock Book says about suicides.

    @slimboyfat-The wording doesn't say hold off on DFing, just on the committee meeting itself. Trust me, when they feel the coast is clear they will go ahead full steam with the JC and the DFing.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Doesn't anyone find it strange that they counsel to call the WT Legal Department? The WT Legal Department can only serve the WTBTS interests, not the interests of the depressed and tired or the elders. The advice halts the elders from consulting their own lawyers whose ethical duty is to protect the individual elder. A local lawyer used by a lawyer will be far more familiar with local law and outcomes than a bunch of jerks at Bethel.

    Clearly, from a legal viewpoint, without giving legal advice, the clearest protection is to call medical authorities. The family could also use some counselling to not hesitate to call for help. Every threat must be treated very seriously. Time is of the essence.

    I believe that suicide is so personal that establishing liability to a third person is almost impossible.

    So neither the WTBTS or the elders do what a disinterested lawyer would recommend.

    How large is their legal department? I first thought 30-50 but the more I read here, it must be in the hundreds, if not thousands. Almost all does not involve the practice of law. I wonder if it is not to put fright in the elders who must not routinely deal with lawyers. It seems to me that they falsely use law and legal process to overreach. A lawyer knows no more about suicide than a high school dropout. Law does not treat depression. Medicine does.

  • steve2
    steve2
    Does this mean they will back off from disfellowshipping someone who is suicidal? If so that sounds like a move in a positive direction.

    Actually, SBF, that was my main reaction. Really, who can blame the organization for keeping a focused eye on legal aspects - the USA is one of the most litigious countries in the world!

    Sure, the evident concern about suicidal members is motivated primarily by legal and impression-manangement concerns. But it's an indirect way of saying to ignorant bodies of elders, Hold Off when you are handling a case in which at least one of the parties is or could be suicidal.

    The letter is an unintentional admission that this must be a problem in the organization. If it were a rare occurrence, why go to the trouble of an official letter? Locally, I know of a brother who was stood down as an elder for chronic alcohol abuse. He was on the verge of being disfellowshipped when he consumed some methylated spirits, went into a coma and died several days later under hospice care.

    Interestingly, the letter does not appear to acknowledge the need to refer suicidal persons to mental health services.

  • Bungi Bill
    Bungi Bill

    LostGeneration,

    Ref: Reliance on Blue collar workers in life-threatening situations:

    While often-times practical experience can - to a degree at least - offset for lack of formal qualifications, dealing with suicidal people is not one of those situations!

    Murphy's Law No.7 reads "Experience gained is in direct proportion to the amount of equipment destroyed" (incidentally, something that I - as a busted @$$ electrician, who is sometimes thrust into an engineering role - can relate to!):

    - When you are dealing with human life, though, you simply don't have that luxury (i.e. of being able to "destroy equipment").

    Being able to run a faultless vertical or overhead arc-weld is of no use whatsoever in handling a person who has tried to commit suicide (all of 20 years old when this happened):

    - nor, for that matter, is consistently putting in a Field Service Report with 10 or more hours in that column entitled "Hours!"

    Bill.

  • Mary
    Mary
    21. In addition, elders should immediately call the Legal Department for legal direction whenever they learn of an actual suicide, a threatened suicide, or an attempted suicide, since legally this is also defined as self-murder or felo-de-se.

    Um, why exactly would elders "immediately call the Legal Department for legal direction" when a Judicial Committee results in someone committing suicide or threatening to commit suicide? Shouldn't they "immediately" be calling 911? Oh I forgot---we have to make sure that God's Holy Organization is in no way implicated or to blame for one of their followers committing suicide, even if their policy on extreme shunning drove them to it.

    Whether a family member or close friend with knowledge of the suicide threat or suicide attempt reports it to authorities is a personal decision for him to make. (Gal. 6:5) Elders should not discourage anyone from reporting the matter. Family members who are aware of the suicide threat or attempt should be encouraged to take positive steps to prevent the person from harming himself.

    'Positive steps'? Like what?! Calling 911, or getting them to seek professional counselling? Call the Suicide Hotline? No way......that would involve a professional from 'Satan's world' finding out that one of the happiest people on earth is about to lose their entire world courtesy of the JW shunning method and wants to end their life because of it. And that might not look good for the Organization.

    To sum up: Calling the Legal Department is obligatory, not an option. Yet getting that person professional help is a option, not obligatory. Ya, and they wonder why so many are leaving the ranks. I guess this shouldn't come as any surprise, given the morons who are running the show.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Also, their analysis of self-murder is erroneous. Centuries ago they may have been right in terms of the law. Most states have adopted a medical model of suicide. It is to be treated, not viewed as a crime. My mom told me of Witnesses in her generation that were overwhelmed and attempted suicide. They were chained to a bed in a hospital and a cop was ever present. They were arrested.

    I am no longer young. If I am still middle-aged, I am at the very end. Law schools taught the medical model in my day.

    As with other matters, I see nothing in WT doctrine that compels their views of depression and suicide. It appears to be yet another indication of their overreaching. They insulated themselves legally which is fair. On the other hand, they overreach and control to the nth degree.

    With my family background and Witness history, I've suffered some depression. Meds work. I've had success long before any psychotherapy could work. If suicide and depression is a sin or character defect, why would restoring brain chemistry bring relief? One could pray ot JAH and also swallow pills and be monitored by an md. There is nothing mutually exclusive in the process. Imagine just barely holding on, or having momentarily attempted suicide, and being judged for insufficient field service hours or WT participation.

    We are talking about basic human rights. I wonder if their future lawyers ever mingle with classmates in law school. Anyway, the Legal Department answers to the WTBTS, not individual elders. When one side is so lawyered up, the other should have enough sense to lawyer up themselves.

    I wish we could see a policy manual for Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans, or Baptists to see how they treat it. The Episcopal church has many priests who undergo psych training to do pastoral counseling. You don't need to be Episcopal to be helped. No one even referred me to a Bible or Sunday services.

  • undercover
    undercover

    I wish we could see a policy manual for Catholics...

    The Catholics take a pretty hard stand on suicide, at least from a theological viewpoint.

    So far as to take this viewpoint:

    This suicide rate obviously includes suicides attributable to mental illness , but we cannot accept the opinion of a large number of physicians, moralists , and jurists who, led into error by a false philosophy , lay it down as a general rule that suicide is always due to insanity , so great is the horror which this act inspires in every man of sane mind . The Church rejects this theory and, while admitting exceptions, considers that those unfortunates who, impelled by despair or anger , attempt their life often act through malice or culpable cowardice. In fact, despair and anger are not as a general thing movements of the soul which it is impossible to resist, especially if one does not neglect the helps offered by religion , confidence in God , belief in the immortality of the soul and in a future life of rewards and punishments.

    Widely different reasons have been advanced to explain the high frequency of suicide, but it is more correct to say that it does not depend on any one particular cause, but rather on an assemblage of factors, such as thesocial and economic situation, the misery of a great number, a more feverish pursuit of what is consideredhappiness, often ending in cruel deceptions, the ever more refined search for pleasure, a more precocious and intense stimulation of sexual life, intellectual overwork, the influence of the media and the sensational news with which it daily provides its readers, the influences of heredity, the ravages of alcoholism, etc. But it is undeniable that the religious factor is by far the most important, the increase in suicides keeping step with the de-Christianization of a country.

    France presents a painful example parallel to the systematic de-Christianization; the number of suicides for each 100,000 of population increased from 8.32 in 1852 to 29 in 1900. The reason is obvious. Religion alone, and especially the Catholic religion, instructs us with regard to the true destiny of life and the importance of death; it alone furnishes a solution of the enigma of suffering, inasmuch as it shows man living in a land of exile and suffering as a means of acquiring the glory and happiness of a future life. By its doctrines of the efficacy ofrepentance and the practice of confession it relieves the moral suffering of man; it forbids and prevents to a large extent the disorders of life; in a word it is of a nature to prevent the causes which are calculated to impel a man to the extreme act.

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14326b.htm

    The WTS OTOH, has, in more recent years anyway, taken a more hands-off approach. While not condoned nor given a pass for due to mental issues, they are very careful to not do or say anything to cause disgruntledness among survivors...in official print.

    But as the experiences on this forum show (myself included) there has been in the past, an attitude of "suicide, or attempted suicide, is a major sin worthy of DFing". I had one elder actually tell me that a family member who committed suicide had no hope for resurrection, despite statements made otherwise in the publications. I've seen funerals of suicide victims having to be held in a funeral home when the KH was not allowed t be used.

    The letter on confidentiality is troubling in that it is assumed that one who threatened or attempted suicide is now part of a judicial hearing. Why exactly is it assumed that there is judicial action being taken in the first place?

    The first order of business for elders, upon hearing of acutal suicide, attempted suicide, or even threatened suicide - is to call the WT legal dept. The letter does recommend that elders encourage family to take steps to help prevent a tragedy, but this is added as almost an afterthought to the main import: Call the legal dept. Cover your, or better yet, the WT asses. All else is secondary.

  • therevealer
    therevealer

    I love this too - There is no need to state that you will be contacting the Legal Department. You should then call the Legal Department
    immediately
    for further direction on how to proceed.

  • truth_b_known
    truth_b_known

    If someone in the congregation has committed a crime, even sexual assault of a child, do not call the police. Call the Watch Tower Legal Department. If someone in the congregation is suicidal, do not call for police and fire services. Call the Watch Tower Legal Department.

    However, if someone disrupts a meeting, call the police and have that man arrested!

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