Email from JW friend re: UN scandal:

by stocwach 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • stocwach
    stocwach

    Hi everyone,

    Thought I'd share this response with you, and I guess I shouldn't be surprised:

    I hate to say this but this stuff is all a waste of time. As for the united
    nations mention, I did check into this one since this one "had you hot" and
    spoke to my two brother in laws that go to two different congregations and
    have been elders for over 15 years now and NEITHER had any clue of any
    letter.

    By the way, people can crop Britney Spears face onto another persons body to
    make her look like she's posed in the nude. Just because it is on Watchtower
    letterhead doesn't make it genuine just like me saying that I am a mormon in
    good standing makes me a genuine good standing mormon. I know you know this
    but wanted to remind you that yes, there are people out there in the
    Internet world that have alot of time on their hands and are also very
    bitter. Anyhow to my main point:

    (MOST IMPORTANT POINT HERE UP FOR DEBATE!!!!!) if there is some letter (WHO
    CARES?), remember the united nations can be petitioned for human rights
    issues as the JW's did just last year regarding religious freedom issues in
    france. (French gov't petitions also have been placed) The Jw's also took
    out full page adds in the Paris and NY Times papers to bring to peoples
    attention the french religous freedom issues. It can't hurt to be a charter
    member to use the courts and appeals system to win religious freedom rights
    can it? Believe it or not the UN will bestow certain restrictions on
    countries for human right issues and not allow them to join their charter if
    they are in violation of human rights/religious issues. (This can hurt third
    world countries economically as well as the damage the respect of the tier 1
    wealthy nations and their claims of freedom etc.) The JW's also petioned the
    UN in cases in Georgia (Russia) and in Rawanda to have the UN note and try
    to act on the cruel punishment of genocide and religious issues that are
    currently going on in those countries not only for JW's but for everyone!

    If you think this is religious hypocrisy to use the Gov't system/courts/UN
    (which are all considered in Satan's power according to the bible and JW's)
    then the bible and it's apostles are hypocritcal since the Apostle Paul
    petitoned the Roman Gov Festus (Satan's political gov't in his power) for
    his freedom and testified in front of him in the book of Acts. The bible
    does not say: "Thou shalt not use courts, govt's or political organizations
    to insure religious rights." If anything, Paul's example shows that using
    the courts is OK and Gov Agrippa's reply after Paul's testimony in Acts was:
    "In a short time, you could persuade me to become a Christian." Not only did
    Paul win his appeal to speak in front of Caesar for his appeal of freedom,
    (Paul was jailed by the Romans for speaking about Jesus as ruler rather then
    Caesar which was in act of treason) he also preached the gospel to someone
    that was not familiar with Jesus and his teachings. Please once again use
    the bible as your reference in the book of Acts regarding this account. Once
    again, who cares if there is a letter or a charter or tattoos of the UN
    building on my buttocks? I'm sure that the web site you are looking at
    failed to mention all these points listed above but has the "scandal" of the
    millenium on those JW's. (Now that's odd? hmmmmmm) Two sides to every story
    as the old saying goes. Which then one could also reason:

    Of all the relgions that supposedly have so much to hide in shame. Why are
    we the most public religion coming to your door on a monthly basis? If we
    have something to hide, we would not go door to door to expose our huge
    flaws nor would we invite anyone to our churches out of fear of being
    discovered hypocritical.

    Just as JW's claim that Satan rules the world and all govt's and the UN, we
    can still use the courts like the Apostle Paul did again in front of King
    Agrippa and Caesar (Yes the Roman supreme leader!)to appeal his jail
    sentence and eventually win his religious freedoms. This account is found
    also in the book of Acts for reference.

    Some of the religious rights that most people take for granted today for
    public preaching, flag salute, prayer in school, Atheist beliefs, removal of
    "in god we trust", conscientious objecters, etc. were insured directly and
    in directly by the JW's through the US supreme court. As a relgious
    organization, there were some 30 Supreme court cases that were won by JW's
    that insured religious rights not only for JW's but for everyone. Yes
    through the courts these freedoms were won just like the Apostle Paul won
    his freedonm in front of Caesar.

    I never bothered to get back since I don't think that anything I found out
    will change your mind nor do I want to change your mind. You are free to
    believe what ever you want and thats because we live in a country that
    insures that right to all of us through the courts and it's constitution.

    Basically you can either believe my word. Or believe somebody elses word
    regardless if they are wrong or right which in the end, has no better
    solution to offer for hope.

    Sorry for the long winded response,
    Normski

  • messenger
    messenger

    "Stupid is as stupid does sir."

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    Stocwach my friend,

    Did you buy into this argument? Do you think going door-to-door selling magazines is the "good works" that separates the Jdubs from the rest of Christendom? Just curious what your own assessment is of this defense of hypocracy.

    carmel

  • Dutchy
    Dutchy

    You write:

    "Basically you can either believe my word. Or believe somebody elses word regardless if they are wrong or right which in the end, has no better solution to offer for hope."

    However, don't you realize that the organization that you belong to does allow its members to think for themselves. That everything you do and say is legislated. Why, your posting on this Board is a reason for them to disfellowship you.

    Also, I don't believe that anyone here has a problem with your organization going to court and fighting for human rights, but that absolutely does not excuse it joining the UN. I don't care what the elders you questioned say, there is inconclusive prrof that they indeed indeed belong to the United Nation, an organization that for decades they have been drumming into our heads was partnered with false religion, or Babylon The Great. Why we were even cautioned not to accept jobs with the UN and now to see that they have themselves joined itsw rank is just to much. I for one am outraged at their duplicity and you should be too.

    Just remember that the WTBS is nothing more than a gigantic multi-milion dolar publishing company. All of its books are best sellers before they roll off the presses because you and your "friends" are required to buy them and peddle them from door to door. If you place your hope in a publishing company operating under the guise of a religion, then there is no help for you.

    There fight for religious freedom is other countries benefits them directly because they will then have more poor souls, giving them free labor, selling their books and magazines, making them richer still.

  • mustang
    mustang

    "...for decades they have been drumming into our heads was partnered with false religion, or Babylon The Great. Why we were even cautioned not to accept jobs with the UN and now to see that they have themselves joined itsw rank is just to much. I for one am outraged at their duplicity and you should be too."

    Bingo!!

    This is what always frosts me: The WTS will DF YOU in a heartbeat for any such thing, but the JW defending them will be SO LIBERAL IT IS PATHETIC!!!

    Mustang

  • ashitaka
    ashitaka

    Your friends response if what I like to call HORSEPUCKY...but not a surprise. My dad's dubby enough to buy the library card excuse.

    ashi

  • Xander
    Xander

    Just because it is on Watchtower letterhead doesn't make it genuine
    ...and...
    If you think this is religious hypocrisy to use the Gov't system/courts/UN

    So, if I understand the gist of his argument...

    'Of course if any such application to the UN was made, it was faked. But, if it wasn't, then there is nothing wrong with joining the UN, since the society did it.'

    Isn't that circular reasoning?

    A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
    --George Santayana
  • stocwach
    stocwach

    Carmel,

    I was shocked at his reasoning, because I consider him a pretty intelligent guy MOST of the time!

    I quickly replied to him that I could have told him that there are thousands of elders that still no nothing about this, and that he should check it out himself by contacting someone at the Society, at Bethel, and at the UN. Then I told him to humor me and assume it is true--and asked him how in the world he could say "So what-big deal!" when the Society obviously thought it was a big enough deal now that it became public knowledge-- that they immediately formerly withdrew their NGO status! I asked him if he realized that what he was now saying was apostate, since the Society has now admitted they couldnt remain an NGO due to the requirements, although they lied by implying that this was new news to them and the sharing in the views of the UN charter didn't exist back in '91. I also brought up the fact that if you joined to YMCA to use the exercise facility you would be subject to public reproof/disfellowshipping if not repentant for it.

    He's a pretty good friend of mine, and believe me, I am going to be relentless with this issue, as well as the blood contradiction issue, protection of pedophiles, etc.

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns
    if there is some letter (WHO
    CARES?),

    This is a typical dumb JW response that 'even if you are right, I don't care'. The reality is that most JWs care very little about truth despite always telling themselves how much they love being "in" it. This makes arguing with most of them a waste of time.

    Of course, any thinking Witness who has been around for a while will be disturbed at the possibility that the Society was connected to the UN because they understand why it should be disturbing. Generally, these persons make up the Society's most valuable members and these are the people that the Organization needs the most but is driving them away.

    The bulk of them are mindless drones that will respond the way your friend has. Usually they are spiritually ignorant, half-assed Witnesses who go through life confident "they have the truth" but don't really know what they even believe and are unable to defend it with sound arguments. This is what the organization has become and it is getting embarrassing for anyone with a brain still associated.

    Path

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf
    Of course, any thinking Witness who has been around for a while will be disturbed at the possibility that the Society was connected to the UN because they understand why it should be disturbing. Generally, these persons make up the Society's most valuable members and these are the people that the Organization needs the most but is driving them away.

    I'm a "thinking Witness" that's "been around for a while", and yet I'm not the least bit "disturbed". Now see how silly you can be!

    Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.

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