My sarcasm-meter isnt working today, so i'll have to ask:
Are you being serious?
Questions From Thinkers
by Perry 186 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Perry
Flat Accent
If there is no God, how do we explain human longings and desire for the transcendent? How do we even explain human questions for meaning and purpose, or inner thoughts like, why do I feel unfulfilled or empty? Why do certain experiences deliver shuch short term satisfction? Where does my conscience come from? Why can't I live up to my conscience; if indeed it is my "self" doing the willing? Why I tell myself, "I will not lie" and then I go on to lie, is it my "self" that is in control or the sin that dwells in me? What can prevent or get rid of this phenomena?
Why do we hunger for the spiritual, and how do we explain these longings if nothing exists beyond the material world?
Why don’t we see more atheists like Jean Paul Sartre, or Friedrich Nietzsche, or Michel Foucault? These three philosophers, who also embraced atheism, recognized that in the absence of God, there was no transcendent meaning beyond one’s own self-interests, pleasures, or tastes. The crisis of atheistic meaninglessness is depicted in Sartre’s book Nausea.
What can explain why some make absurd claims like "no evidence" when presented with any evidence (the telelogical, cosmological, ontological and moral arguments?). Why must some obfuscate the facts they are presented with ludicious questions like "what facts?" or "are you serious?"
Is atheism meaninglessness epitomized when deconstructed as simply narcissitic behavior? -
thetrueone
God's will always be manifestations of imagination derived from expressions of human ignorance. Whether a person wants to live within that imagination is up to each individual.
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THE GLADIATOR
“Is atheism meaninglessness epitomized when deconstructed as simply narcissitic behavior? ”
It could be said that the desire to live forever is the ultimate in self love or admiration of oneself; therefore the personification of narcissism
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Flat_Accent
If there is no God, how do we explain human longings and desire for the transcendent?
You're confusing not wanting to die with the existence of God. We are one of the few, if not the only species that is aware of our own mortality, the eventual heat-death of our planet and the destruction of the universe. Nobody likes these ideas, however that is where the evidence leads us. There is no evidence to suggest that "I'll see you all again in some theme park : one nice, one nasty."
We have consciousness, and self-awareness, so it is obvious that we would ask ourselves these deep questions. And again, as nice as it would be to have some overall purpose in the universe, that does not constitute evidence FOR one. It is merely wishful thinking. Because I can think it or because I want it, does not mean it exists.
Although you suggest some have a hunger for spiritual things, it is also true that some people do not. True, religion is pervasive in all peoples across the world, but from an evolutionary standpoint the origins of these faiths, and the reason people are suceptible to them, become quite easily understood.
As for your 'where are the atheist philosophers' argument, I'd say the field has shifted from philosophy and onto science. We don't just muse over the question of god's existence anymore - science has examined and tested and refined, and the space for God in the grand scheme of things is ever shrinking. 97% of the National Academy of Sciences is Atheist, that should speak volumes.
This video is more relevant to your OP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEIGWESngdY
This one's pretty funny too.
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Knowsnothing
If Jesus' resurrection was faked, why would twelve intelligent men (Jesus' disciples) have died for what they knew to be a lie?
Belief and intelligence are two different fields. Islamists blow themselves up and are happy to die for Allah.
How can something as small as a brain understand extremely complicated aspects of the universe, even though it is (supposedly) just a bunch of chemical reactions and electrical signals? But at the same time, this brain can’t create another brain like itself, so how can nature, that has no brain, create a brain?
We just haven't gotten there yet. Our ancestors' brains were preoccupied on not getting eaten, sex, and feeding themselves. It's only now with our technological advances that we can even begin to peer into the complicated brain processes.
Why can't this brain even create a simple living twig?
A living twig only appears simple.
Why is the simple cell likened to the complexity of large functioning city by experts?
Because it is not simple. It is only classified as simple in regards to more complex life forms.
Is it absolutely true that "truth is not absolute" or only relatively true that "all things are relative?"
I thought Christians were forbidden to engage in "vain philosophy" and "empty talk", since y'all already know everything?
What do you say about the hundreds of scholarly books that carefully document the veracity and reliability of the Bible?
It is important to note what portions of the Bible are documented as true and reliable. Myth and history tend to intertwine with the ancients, remember?
Have you ever considered the fact that Christianity is the only religion whose leader is said to have risen from the dead?
Elvis never died!
Why don't non-believers refer to Jesus as the late Jesus Christ?
Now you're just being obtuse.
If the authorities stole Jesus' body, why?
If the whole thing is a mythical embellisment of reality, this is a non-sequitur? The rest of the questions are rather similar.
How can one realistically discount the testimony of over 500 witnesses to a living Jesus following His crucifixion (see 1 Corinthians 15:6)?
Probably thousands have reported to see Bigfoot, the Lochness, aliens, etc. Seems like the mind is apt at deceiving or confirming our bias, eh?
Is it wrong to ask such questions? Why?
No, but it would be great if you actually took the time to look at both sides, instead of claiming you have the truth and expecting us to just follow along. I've been just as guilty as you have, just copy pasting things from creationist sites, and then claiming them as my own "thought experiments."
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Finally-Free
How do you explain David's graphic portrayal of Jesus' death by crucifixion (Psalm 22) 1000 years before Christ lived?
This is assuming that these things were not written after the fact. Without the aid of scientists, historians, and religionists who we don't even know personally we have no way of verifying anything. It could all be a very elaborate hoax. Who can independently prove any of it?
I was raised in a Catholic home, went to a Catholic school, and taught to believe in God. That was true. Then I was taught that evolution was true. I was taught that brushing my teeth with Colgate was good. Then I was taught that the chemicals in it were not good. Then I was taught that eggs were bad, and that was true. Now I read that eggs are good, and that is true.
I could go on all day...
Bottom line: Most humans could say "good morning" to me, and I would assume they are lying. I no longer trust anything I read or hear. I trust only what I experience.
W
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BluesBrother
Well, I for one stand closer to Perry than to an atheist viewpoint. I am no longer a literal believer but it makes more sense to me than the alternative.
If we had no alternative views, we could have no discussion.
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Flat_Accent
Fair enough BluesBrother.
But if Perry was arguing for a flat earth, I doubt you'd be romanticizing the idea of discussion quite as much.
Comments like 'If the Bible is wrong then why do people only mentioned in the Bible say it's true?' and 'how can nature create a brain?' are so tedious they're not even worth the webspace.
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SweetBabyCheezits
I'm not going to answer these questions for you, Perry. But what I will do is offer you an alternate question and suggest you practice some intellectual integrity in how you scrutinize yours and mine.
Intellectual Integrity: Recognition of the need to be true to one's own thinking; to be consistent in the intellectual standards one applies; to hold one's self to the same rigorous standards of evidence and proof to which one holds one's antagonists; to practice what one advocates for others; and to honestly admit discrepancies and inconsistencies in one's own thought and action.
How do you explain David's graphic portrayal of Jesus' death by crucifixion (Psalm 22) 1000 years before Christ lived?
How do you explain that C.T. Russell and Co "accurately predicted" the end of the gentile times well before 1914?
How do you account for the odds (1 in 10 to the 157th power) that even just 48 (of 300) Old Testament prophecies were fulfilled in Jesus Christ?
How do you account for the odds that prophecies of the Quran have been fulfilled as predicted? http://www.alislam.org/library/articles/prophecies.html
Also, are you familiar with the term retrofit?
In what sense was Jesus a "good man" if He was lying in His claim to be God?
In what sense was Muhummad a "good man" if he was lying in his claim to be a prophet?
If Jesus' resurrection was faked, why would twelve intelligent men (Jesus' disciples) have died for what they knew to be a lie?
If Joseph Smith's golden plates didn't exist (the ones from which Smith said he translated the BoM), why would eleven intelligent witnesses sign a statement testifying they'd seen the plates and eight of the witnesses testify to have held them?
How can something as small as a brain understand extremely complicated aspects of the universe, even though it is (supposedly) just a bunch of chemical reactions and electrical signals? But at the same time, this brain can’t create another brain like itself, so how can nature, that has no brain, create a brain? Why can't this brain even create a simple living twig? Why is the simple cell likened to the complexity of large functioning city by experts?
How can a Mandelbrot set produce infinite complexity from simplicity?
Why didn't Perry come up with the theories of relativity?
Why do inferior "creations" have superior parts, such as the eye? (Eagle's ability to see long distances, monocular or binocular, or the cat's ability to see with much less light than humans need...) Why didn't your [concept of] god create us with the best of everything?
Is it absolutely true that "truth is not absolute" or only relatively true that "all things are relative?"
If nothing is impossible for your [concept of] god, can he create a rock so big even he cannot lift it? [and other platitudinous shit]
What do you say about the hundreds of scholarly books that carefully document the veracity and reliability of the Bible?
What do you say about the hundreds of scholarly books that note the lack of supporting evidence for Biblical miracles and the other outlandish BS found therein?
Have you ever considered the fact that Christianity is the only religion whose leader is said to have risen from the dead?
Have you ever considered the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses are the only religion who are "preaching the good news" worldwide?
Why don't non-believers refer to Jesus as the late Jesus Christ?
That's just stupid. Why don't those who believe Elvis is dead refer to him as the late Elvis Presley?
If the authorities stole Jesus' body, why? Why would they have perpetrated the very scenario that they most wanted to prevent? If Jesus merely resuscitated in the tomb, how did He deal with the Roman guard posted just outside its entrance?
Why would the authorities need Judas to identify Jesus? Wouldn’t they already know who he was? Why would then need him to lead them to Jesus? Couldn’t they just have him followed? (per Bart Ehrman, leading NT scholar)
How can one realistically discount the testimony of over 500 witnesses to a living Jesus following His crucifixion (see 1 Corinthians 15:6)?
How can one realistically discount the testimony of over 900 witnesses who must've thought Jim Jones was the reincarnation of Jesus, Akhenaten, Buddha, Vladimir Lenin, and Father Divine in the 1970s? Galanter, Marc (1999). Cults: Faith, Healing, and Coercion. Oxford University Press; 2nd edition. ISBN 978-0-19-512370-8
What do you make of all the anthropological studies indicating that even the most remote tribes show some sort of theological awareness?
What do you make of all the cargo cults that focused on obtaining the material wealth (the "cargo") of the advanced culture through magic and religious rituals and practices? -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
If every effect has a cause, then what or who caused the universe?
If every effect has a cause, then what or who caused your [concept of] god?
How do you explain the thousands of people who have experienced heaven or hell and have come back to tell us about it?
How do you explain the thousands of people who have experienced alien abductions and have come back to tell us about it?
How do you explain the cosmological constant?
How do you explain the Biblical flood?
Is it wrong to ask such questions? Why?
Is it wrong to be willfully ignorant of science? Why?