Many of the elders in my former congregation were inept, irresponsible and dogmatic. They reached out to beome elders because they could never make it in the real world. Only in a twisted, backward, misogynistic religion could they acheive the power and prominence they crave.
Whats the real reason men want to become elders?
by usualusername 41 Replies latest jw friends
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scotoma
Look at the biological roots for the answer. Humans are a species where the male is larger and stronger than the females. Females select for strength and physique size. The top male has first choice of females. Primitive male dominated societies are the model for religious groups. Men try to discount it but deep down inside the male beast is a desire to attract females.
Helping people? That's part of the job. Especially helping the attractive sisters. "Helping" has strong overtones of superiority. The superior people help the inferior. Powerful males help weak males only when it comes to initiation into the male fraternity. "Come here son. I'm going to show you how to be a "spiritual" MAN like ME" The joy of being appointed to an "ELDER" is probably enhanced erections knowing you have a licence to mount.
Monogamy & its associated rules sublimate the raw search for females. But its still there if you are a careful observer.
One way to manage this is to have men compete with women for positions of power.
It's too easy to forget that we are animals.
If you are an elder you are just facilitating an archaic practice. You aren't helping anyone if you are a male in a position that requires females to be "submissive". What is submission but allowing someone to mount you.
Get off the platform. No self-respecting person would be part of that game.
Going to the hall is like watching an episode of Madmen.
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stuckinamovement
Because that is what is expected of you. The "career path" of a born- in who is under a microscope generally leans towards pioneering out of high school, becoming a MS at 19-20, kissing butt for 6-8 years and then appointment as an elder. Don't underestimate the pressure that is put upon these young men. The congregation and Circuit overseers will groom and encourage young servants to reach out to be elders. I think that the intense pressure comes from the congregations desire to see a "success" come out from the young ones in the hall. Most kids split after they are out of school. This puts more pressure on the ones who stay to become the superstars that their peers weren't.
I know for myself, I didn't want authority, power, and prestige as an elder. I just wanted approval and acceptance from the people that I had known my entire life.
SIAM
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clarity
Scotoma lol did enjoy your comments.....
"If you are an elder you are just facilitating an archaic practice. You aren't helping anyone if you are a male in a position that requires females to be "submissive". What is submission but allowing someone to mount you".
>
See.. I wish I had known that when I was younger.
There is an awe factor for women ... seems like we can be 'normal' with average men, but bring on a real goodlooking man or a man with some kind of power (elder) ..... and we get all tonque tied!
Anyway, powerful answers you guys .... and yes I understand more fully why being a GB member would be a prized position aside from the easy lifestyle and control of the money!!
clarity
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jean-luc picard
Heartofaboy:
For articulate & enlightened men that really want to help & do good to others it will be a soul destroying experience. This type of man will never thrive in the Black & White right or wrong world of the Borg.
I agree.
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sd-7
"Bringing you what you've always wanted: power, beyond your wildest dreams. And it's only the beginning."--Green Goblin, 'Spider-Man', 2002.
--sd-7
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usualusername
A circuit overseer in India told me that you give these men a piece of paper and suddenly they think they are important.......
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Dogpatch
tornapart says,
I only know about my own husband who is an elder and it is because he genuinely loves the brothers and wants to do his best to help them. There may be many who do it for the 'prestige' it gives them but I'm sure there are just as many like him.
You are right, my dear, there are many great men in the org that just haven't worked it out, or are not interested in philosophical diatribe. They really love people, but are often hampered by WT restrictions, especially now that they want the elders to carry all blame in any court case involving pedophilia, blood transfusions, and private opinions. They are cock-blocked by the GB. All for the mighty organization.
Think of the WT as Enron or other recent scams with high-profile organizations. Then it all makes sense.
I have worked with pastors of churches for decades. I have been one myself for three years; licensed with Foursquare for several more before starting a church. Kudos to most of them that go unnoticed and would bleed to death to save one of their own, and live off peanuts. I never even took a salary from pastoring, and that is not unusual. Hats off to people who give their all to others. There are many, even in the Watchtower.
The average pastor of most churches carries more respect to me than most other people. They give too much, and suffer later often. I don't care about their pet doctrines so much as how much they really love people and their own self-sacrificing nature. There are just as many of those elders in the WT as there are pastors in churches - just human nature, no mystery. But they are hampered from their real potential by a corporation which has little interest in individuals.
I think being a pastor, and in some cases a WT elder, are second to being president of the U.S. in terms of rapid aging yet an uncanny ability to understand people's primal nature and what their problem really is, rather than taking their words as an accurate explanation of themselves. A mother with several kids is equally aware of this nonsense. I think Bill Clinton was one of the presidents most aware of all of this charade. I liked him.
C.S. Lewis wrote a book about a man who had an imaginary P.R. spokesman to cover his sorry ass (forgot the title of the book, read it 30 years ago). C.S. was an enlightening Christian author, well-respected, a student of J. R. R. Tolkien in fantasy, but managed to convert Tolkien to Christianity. But that ended up like Prince being converted to JWs, it did not fit Tolkien's unique perspective or style. I don't think it damaged Tolkien's style in the end. Unlike Prince, C.S. never gained the unusual talent of Tolkien, but actually plaigarized Tolkien's style.
That was a mistake because C.S. writing talent was far inferior, partially hampered by his need to cater to the "Christian world." BTW, C.S. believed in evolution, but because he was a good author, it was overlooked by most evangelicals. He didn't attempt to hide it. He was a good man, but his writing skills were far inferior to Tolkien's mind. But it is good fantasy to many. Most of it is cheesy to me. (Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe? Tolkien wouldn't be caught dead writing such evangelistic drivel.)
For Christian writers (actually Catholic), I much prefer G. K. Chesterton, an amazing writer. Catholics are much more honest about church history than Protestants, despite their other faults. Why? They have no need to develop ridiculous concepts like sola scritura, or Calvinism, which conveniently detaches such sectarians from responsibility to historical records and accepted reality. U.S. Protestants are, for the most part, very poor scholars. Visit some seminaries if you doubt me. I have spoken in a couple, and monitor the others. German protestant theologians are actually the most reliable when it comes to interpreting the 66 books that we have come to accept as "the Bible." Even the WT trusts in the early Father's decisions, at least up until the political Trinity conferences in the fourth century.
BTW, Marvin's blog is pretty good today. Check it out.
Randy
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Dogpatch
Cedars, my friend, you have a PM.
You are officially disfellowshipped by the GRAND POOBAH. :-))
Randy