Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong? (page 48)

sabastious

We are well past the age of believing in luck and superstition, and it doesn't do anyone any good to worry about something as useless and silly as a blessing. As I stated before, separation of church and state is what permitted freedom to flourish and this country to become great. Freedom to innovate and practice science. If it were up to god and religion, America would wait for god to fight their battles for them, as the ancients did, or not take up the sword in defense as Jesus commanded. No, religion is not due the credit of this nations ideals of freedom, military might, and technological prowess, you can thank freedom and science for those.

No human entity has the power to bless a nation. I was simply refering to the US having God's favor because of offering freedom to their citizens. Freedom is a new thing, and as we can all see now it's also a good thing. And good things please God especially on a nationwide scale. Job is a good example, he worked hard and then was given a boost by God through good fortune.

-Sab

tootired2care

Sab - what makes you think that God is pleased with any political institution of man, free or not? As far as I'm aware there is zero support in the scriptures for this notion. In fact according to Jesus what should you be praying for to come?

palmtree67

There is compelling evidence that Jesus was at least studied up on much more than just Judaism . This is because Christ was a universalist, not a Christian or Jew. What he set up was to break the world and usher in a new line of thinking for mankind. To follow Christ is to follow his lead as a universalist.

sabastious

Sab - what makes you think that God is pleased with any political institution of man, free or not? As far as I'm aware there is zero support in the scriptures for this notion. In fact according to Jesus what should you be praying for to come?

I believe free nations are the new "nations of Israel". The reason why the original nation was set up was to provide a safe haven for people who followed certain godly ideals. The fact that Israel today is a free nation in the middle east is telling. That's why the nation of Israel was called the "firstborn" in the Torah. It was the beginnings of a new way of life which is now called the free Western World. I heavily believe that the Quakers were influenced by the Torah and the New Testament when they created the structure of the US government. I think this was God's plan to usher in the Western World. Consequently the US constitution served itself as a model for many other countries who are now free as well. Christ's kingdom on earth is progressive and we are well into it right now.

-Sab

sabastious

The 53rd Hexagram speaks about Development, or gradual progress:

DEVELOPMENT. The maiden Is given in marriage. Good fortune. Perseverance furthers.

The development of events that leads to a girl's following a man to his home proceeds slowly. The various formalities must be disposed of before the marriage takes place. This principle of gradual development can be applied to other situations as well; it is always applicable where it is a matter of correct relationships of co-operation, as for instance in the appointment of an official. The development must be allowed to take its proper course. Hasty action would not be wise. This is also true, finally, of any effort to exert influence on others, for here too the essential factor is a correct way of development through cultivation of one's own personality. No influence such as that exerted by agitators has a lasting effect. Within the personality too, development must follow the same course if lasting results are to be achieved. Gentleness that is adaptable, but at the same time penetrating, is the outer form that should proceed from inner calm. The very gradualness of the development makes it necessary to have perseverance, for perseverance alone prevents slow progress from dwindling to nothing. I CHING 53

Developing a Free World, like the one we have now, proceeds slowly, there is no other way. Which is why Revelation says:

Revelation 13 - 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.

10 “If anyone is to go into captivity,
into captivity they will go.
If anyone is to be killed with the sword,
with the sword they will be killed.”

This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.

-Sab

tootired2care

This whole notion about the U.S. and Israel is just really hinky and wierd.

The kingdom that Jesus wanted his disciples to pray for was a heavenly organization not earthly one (i.e. U.S.), and If you recall Jesus rejected the nation of Israel. So I don't buy it, that notion is pure speculation. And this is the trouble with religion mixing in with politcs; we must defend Isreal because God commanded it? Do you know how ludicrous that sounds? How is that separation of church and state? That position could very well pull us down a rabbit hole with the whole Muslim world.

Matt 23:37-38 (NIV)

37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.

sabastious

The kingdom that Jesus wanted his disciples to pray for was a heavenly organization not earthly one (i.e. U.S.), and If you recall Jesus rejected the nation of Israel.

Jesus rejected the idea of a single nation, but that was because the single nation stage was over (it was corrupt at that point anyway). Jesus did tell us to pray for heaven to come to earth, which is what's happening right now with countries becoming free. The Arab Spring will be in full bloom in the future and it will be because of the influence of the western world that was started by the creation of the Torah and the eventual compilation of the Bible Cannon.

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.’

-Sab

sabastious

Pat Condell says he believes heaven is on earth at 1:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bjOyt9PBzA

I seriously cannot get enough of this guy!

-Sab

tootired2care

If heaven is on earth, then see subject: "why is god allowing so much suffering on earth" or look back to the video that started this thread. Sab - your positions contradict one another any way you look at it.

tootired2care

I'm done talking about this, it's pointless.

Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong?

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