If you don't know what's wrong it can't be fixed (page 21)

JonathanH

Why is the governor's views more important than anyone elses? He's human also. Just as prone to err.

sabastious

Why is the governor's views more important than anyone elses? He's human also. Just as prone to err.

It's not his opinion that I am bringing out, it's the loop that Governers are in. If such a "hoaxer call" occurred, which is what the entire argument is based on, then he would know about it, and he doesn't so the call shouldn't even be brought up. There was a special on these lights and they went through the reasons why it's not balloons or flares or anything like that. It's a very special occurence because it's very hard to pin down as a hoax. Like with all skeptics there will always be a thread of reasoning of which they hang a basket with all of their eggs in it. I have to leave, though, I gotta watch a show with the wife. It's been fun.

-Sab

LV101

Sab -- interesting about the Arizona lights. There were people talking in Vegas about something hovering over the Summerlin area --- seems it would appear between a specific time frame a couple of yrs. ago. With Area 51 and the test site I didn't think much about it. Don't you think it's something experimental by the gov't at this point.

SweetBabyCheezits

Occam's Razor isn't nearly as exciting as the thought of aliens visiting earth, demons floating over beds, and fairies playing in the woods.

JonathanH

So in your mind the more likely explanation is that the guy floating the balloons is a hoax, and his neighbor saying he saw it is a hoax, and the aliens are real. I am frequently dumbfounded by people's....eh, whatever. Don't care.

Knowsnothing

If you guys really believe in evolution, aliens are not a farfetched idea.

It would be wise, however, to reserve judgment until we actually know what those lights were.

SweetBabyCheezits

Sab, have you ever read the book Contact by any chance? Or see the movie? I think Sagan did his best to empathize with those who experience things that cannot be tested with the current tools/methods of science. After all, this guy was eagerly searching for signs of life outside of our own. But he was also careful not to pin labels where they didn't belong.

Anyways, another one of Sagan's outstanding books is The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark. The PDF is available online and chapters 4 and 5 are right up the Phoenix Lights alley. To me his advice is balanced and sound, well worth the read.

james_woods

and fairies playing in the woods.

The only fairy playing in the Woods house is the Beer Fairy.

Everyone does realize that this is badly off topic, right?

If you don't know that the thread is off topic, then how can you fix the topic?

JonathanH

It's not that I think the possibility of aliens is far fetched, it's that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and everything points to "nope, not aliens." Why is it all of these alien videos take place at night when you can only see lights? It would seem UFOs, like god, are very intent on only showing enough of themself that true believers will accept it and everybody else will scoff. We need a theology of alien life to explain why they are so intent on hiding themself, but only during the day, and when they reveal themselves they do it in such a way that there are a million and one more plausible explanations than that they are showing themselves.

It's one thing for an occurance to be unverifiable or ambiguous. But when the occurance is consistently ambiguous, and only occurs in such a way as to remain ambiguous, then that is a very good case that the occurance is psychological and not real. All of these ships and lights, and massive flying objects, why don't they ever appear clearly in broad day light? Never happens. It only occurs in such a way that comes with ambiguity. Why doesn't a ghost ever just walk into a skeptics convention just to mess with them? It would seem "supernatural" beings have made a pact to keep their mystique in tact. Rule number one of the pact "never reveal yourself in a clear or unabiguous way. Slam doors, blow out candles, appear in the dark, and never leave any recordable trace of your presence. Only appear in contexts in which people are psychologically primed to accept that you would be there to begin with."

Also again, aliens do not technically belong in the catagory of supernatural. Does the alien know why he floats? Then it isn't for "no known reason." If you consistently break a known law of physics, then we just learned a new aspect of physics. Electricity wasn't supernatural at some point, and then became natural. It was always an aspect of nature, we just hadn't learned about it yet. That's why I say a confirmed case of a supernatural occurance is called a natural occurance.

talesin

N.Drew --- you know what's wrong. Your alters need to learn how to communicate with each other. Why don't you cease and desist from inflicting this on US, and get thee to a therapist.

tal

If you don't know what's wrong it can't be fixed

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