Why did Satan want to kill Jesus?

by FaithfulBrother 40 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Satan is an advocate for humans in Jewish theology. I suppose Job was an exception. Christianity invented the evil Satan who seems an equal counterweight to God. I used to know where Christianity imported this concept. Strict Christian theology teaches that Satan, a created being, was doomed from the start. I've read somewhere that angels have no free will. We needed a scape goat. I wonder if Satan's development did not arise from the church trying to explain why Jesus triumphant allowed such suffering.

    Good question. It raises such basic issues such as who/what is God. In Job, Jehover tolerates Satan. In fact, he seems not to function without Satan. God lowers himself to crass actions.

    Within the last few years, I read a tome on Judas. Judas' concerns always struck me as noble. Most of the book was to show how paintings and other depictions of Satan changed over time. The very sad part was that Judas was identified as the archetype of a traitorous Jew. Genocide followed. Yet Jesus and the apostles were Jewish. A scapegoat was needed.

    The most vile depictions of Jews surface in Judas art. Recently, though, Judas is portrayed as more heroic, a typical human, whose suffering is arbitrary from God. If Satan directed him, Judas had no free will. We need Judas to move the story along. I don't think Judas depictions evolved accidentally. Society changed and the pictures reflect that change. He is sort of an Everyman.

  • James Brown
    James Brown

    I used to know where Christianity imported this concept. Strict Christian theology teaches that Satan, a created being, was doomed from the start.

    The Epic of Gilgamesh from Sumeria the first civilization in history.

  • InterestedOne
    InterestedOne

    As a young person, I had this same question whenever I would read/hear the story. The part would come up saying something like "and Satan entered Judas . . ." and then I would be like "wait ... cut ... hold on a second ... Satan surely knows about all the animal sacrifices and how God requires a perfect human sacrifice to atone for sin, and here we have a perfect human son of God, Jesus. Why would Satan assist in the process of killing him? He would be knowingly assisting in his own defeat." Satan is supposedly so crafty, yet even a kid like me could see the problem. At the time, I just let it go & figured it was an element of drama in one part of the Bible that I shouldn't expect to make sense with other parts of the Bible written by different people.

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    And it seems the key to Satan winning this thing would have been to get Jesus to sin. Yet he only tried this 3 times? But he jumped into Judas to end the losing game? Crazy. He should have never let up---throwing women and pork chops Jesus way with every step. Not just 3 pathetic tries.

  • tec
    tec

    3 tries that are written down. But it is also written that Satan tempted Christ for 40 days (however long that actually is). So, many attempts then. Then when he could not get Christ to sin, He went after those who were meant to belong to Him.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Okay Tec. But see I can't discuss any of this with you. I read three times, you counter with that what we were told about. I read 40 days, you say if that was the amount of time. Since you can assume whatever you like about what is NOT written, and I'm not privy to such information, and such extra info is completely subjectivie, then my conclusion is as possibly correct as your conclusion.

    My conclusion: As written, Satan tempted Jesus 3 times. Add whatever you like to what was written, but I'll work with what I have.

    However, if I get to add whatever I like, then I'll add this.

    Later that night, after being offered the kingdoms of the earth, Jesus got to thinking about it. So he scooted back to that mountain and said "Satan, show me that again!" Satan complies. "Will there be women?" Jesus asks Satan. "Thousands," Satan answers. "Will there be porkchops?" "Anyway you like them!". "Oh, this decision just got a lot harder. I mean, even if I remain sinless, I don't get women or porkchops!" "That's right, Jesus. And think about the lobster! You don't know about Maine yet, but yowza." "So my choices are---women, porkchops, lobster, and ruler of the earth, or death by the most grusome means, humiliation, spit, and then resurrection where I get to sit in a chair, no women, no porkchops, and quite soon, I'll have to kill billions of people that I've grown attached to."

    Yeah, This adding whatever I want can be fun. And my version is just as accurate as anyone elses, cuz I get to operate in a vacuum of information too!

    NC

  • tec
    tec

    My conclusion: As written, Satan tempted Jesus 3 times. Add whatever you like to what was written, but I'll work with what I have.

    In Luke, Satan is said to have tempted Christ for 40 days. That is written. Does it say that he was onlyi tempted three times in those forty days? If not, then why draw that conclusion? Nor is everything that happened in the life of Christ written down. Even that is written.

    Yeah, This adding whatever I want can be fun. And my version is just as accurate as anyone elses, cuz I get to operate in a vacuum of information too!

    I didn't add anything. Everything I commented about IS written down.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    I'm just commenting on what isn't written down.

    but if temptation was the key to victory, I think that Satan would have tempted him much longer than 40 days. Even if he tempted him more than 3 times within that 40 days, but whose to say that it was really 40 days?

    But it is also written that Satan tempted Christ for 40 days (however long that actually is).

    So we can make up all kinds of things according to what is not written. And it's fun and creative. Cuz if I read the bible like you do, i can say there were countless attempts for countless days and it is all unknowable because we can't even trust the text when it says 40 days,---so---my version is quite valid based on what is not written and what I am free to assume by all this partial info.

    NC

  • tec
    tec

    I just mentioned a possibility that forty days simply represents a time period. Is it that unreasonable? Many things are forty days, or forty nights, or whatever. Is this a precise thing, or a time period thing? I don't know, so I don't make an absolute statement one way or the other. Hence the words I wrote in brackets. In either case, being tempted for 40 days is written. Being tempted ONLY three times is not written.

    But if you can show me where it says that He was tempted only three times, then I will concede that point to you.

    It does not say this though. And even after the 40 days, it even says that Satan left him until an opportune time. Suggesting further temptation.

    I did not add anything. I commented on what is there.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    Here is how the three gospel accounts put it (Jesus' wilderness temptation that is):

    Mt 4:1 - 3: "Then Jesus was led by the spirit up into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil. 2 After he had fasted forty days and forty nights, then he felt hungry. 3 Also, the Tempter came and said to him: ..."

    Mk 1:12, 13: "And immediately the spirit impelled him to go into the wilderness. 13 So he continued in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by Satan, and he was with the wild beasts, but the angels were ministering to him."

    Lk 4:1 - 3: "Now Jesus, full of holy spirit, turned away from the Jordan, and he was led about by the spirit in the wilderness 2 for forty days, while being tempted by the Devil. Furthermore, he ate nothing in those days, and so, when they were concluded, he felt hungry. 3 At this the Devil said to him:..."

    Together they allow for the idea that Jesus was tempted all (or part of) 40 days. And in fact, they state that was the purpose of his being sent into the wilderness. Luke's account ends with this statement: "So the Devil, having concluded all the temptation, retired from him until another convenient time." (4:13) So this was not the end of Jesus being tempted by Satan. In fact, he (Jesus) saw Peter's words as a form of Satan's temptation in Mt chapter 16:21-23. Not that Satan had necessarily 'entered' Peter like is later said of Judas, but the context says that Peter was influenced by 'the thoughts of men,' who had themselves been influenced by Satan.

    I thought Tec (Tammy) made some good comments about Satan's tempting of Jesus and about whether he wanted him dead or not. I had some thoughts on this as well but unfortunately I have to go (not to the bathroom) at the moment.

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