Kind of important to get a take on the Jewish concept of evil first- Yetzer HaRa.
Why did Satan want to kill Jesus?
by FaithfulBrother 40 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Kool Jo
Great topic and points that have been brought out....never looked at it this way!
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AnneB
Satan didn't want to kill Jesus, he wanted to prove to God that everyone would disobey given the right set of circumstances. Most people will "compromise" (disobey) when faced with serious consequences, like death. All Jesus had to do was deny who he was and he could have lived. He wouldn't do it. He died because he wouldn't go against his Father's will.
Every time Satan faced off with Jesus he was unsuccessful. (Remember the three temptations in the wilderness?) The last time, Satan upped the ante and Jesus still didn't give in. Jesus knew how it would probably end up, that's why he was so upset as he prayed just before he was betrayed by Judas. He knew how hard it was going to be to remain obedient, that Satan was going to throw him into a situation where he (Jesus) would look like he was bringing shame on the very one he was trying to obey.
If Satan could prove that everyone would disobey then he would be right in stating that God was unjust. That's the whole goal, trying to prove that God is an unfit Father. ....and guess who wants the job???
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Bobcat
I've thought some about this topic before but this discussion motivated me to try to put some of these together to try to get a bigger picture. Here are some related to this discussion:
In connection with Satan the Devil killing others:
Jesus called him "a manslayer when he began." (Jn 8:44)
The apparent reference is to his actions in the garden with Adam and Eve.
The Genesis account shows he was "a manslayer" by prompting them to sin, rather than by directly killing them.
Hebrews 2:14, 15 describes Satan as "the one having the means to cause death" and others being in slavery (to him) due to "fear of death."
I mention these two things because they seem to support the idea that Satan benefits more from having live subjects rather than dead resistors. At the same time, the threat of death would be a useful tool, perhaps used on some to affect the many.
In connection with Satan knowing that Jesus' death would be his undoing (and thus, why kill him?)
From what I can see, God knew ahead of time the details of how and when Jesus would die and systematically withheld that information from Satan (and others for that matter).
Prior to the flood (of Noah's day): God promises a savior (Gen 3:15), curses the ground, eventually many angels sin, the flood wipes out the preflood world, the curse is lifted, mankind starts anew, no further record of any angelic defections. And no more information about the coming Saviour until after all this happens. Effectively eliminating the possibility of any angels learning the details and then turning bad.
For the period after the flood, 1 Peter 1:10 - 12 indicated the prophets could not fully grasp what they were predicting about the Messiah, nor could angels.
Eph 3:8 - 10 also states these things were hidden by God only to be explained by the Christian congregation (after the fact).
Luke 18:31 - 34 and Mark 9:30 - 32 give examples of Jesus' disciples being unable to grasp details of Jesus' death, saying they were purposely "hidden from them."
From this and the above I gather (so far anyways) that Satan would have been more pleased to break Jesus' integrity to God rather than to kill him. But at the same time, the significance of Jesus' death was kept from him.
Another thing that I gather from the fact that humans are held accountable by God despite pressure from Satan is this: That Satan is not in complete control. That is to say, he could incite great opposition to Jesus with the hope of breaking him, but not be able to prevent the momentum of that opposition from killing Jesus, which is exactly what God wanted to happen. Further, the accounts show that Satan recognized who Jesus was. So Satan would see that Jesus was the key person to break, motivating him to go 'all out' as it were. It's as if Satan was given just the right amount of information to cause him to act in a predictable fashion.
Incidentally, Jesus appears to have understood why and when and how he would die based on numerous statements of his.
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Disillusioned Lost-Lamb
WHY?
Because the whole thing's a wad and asking questions will make your head implode.
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Scully
That question actually gives more credibility to the notion that Jesus orchestrated his own execution. He had been a pain in the @$$ with the Jewish priesthood in control at the time - doing good deeds on the Sabbath, exposing their moneychanging in the temple, etc. They wanted him silenced - dead - to protect their corrupt practices. Jesus wanted to be a folk hero, and being martyred played into those plans too.
It's not terribly unlike the way the WTS used to incite riots by encouraging JWs to picket churches, and then suing for human rights violations once they were arrested.
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mP
Scully
One needs to understand that Satan the devil or lord of evil was created to counter goodness. In the old testament there are actually very few references to Satan in any form. Most xians make the mental assumption and read in Satan such as in Genesis 3 where A&E are tempted by the snake, but Genesis itself never mentions Satan. Then again no other commentary elsewhere ever connects Satan to the snake or garden either.
We can see some changes in this theology in the eidts found in Kings and Chronicles, where 70000 are said to die after a census of Israel. One scripture say they basically died from a faminine. In one case Satan is said to have willed David while in the other Jehovah is said to test him. After the census Jehovah gets angry and kills the poor israelites as punishment. I cant or wont attempt to explain why David gets off, but as always its easiest explained by the fact the poor die when times are tough and the king never goes hungry.
If we next examine Egyptian religion we can see they picture the world as half good half bad. Good is when its warm , sunny, where things grow, while bad is literally the night, cold, winter. With the earth cycles of day and night or summer and winter, we can see good triumphs over evil but then things swap and this continues forever.
We can see the same symbology in the gospels. Everywhere Jesus uses and is spoken of in terms related to the sun or goodness. We can find many terms and phrases that are simply references to the sun. Im talking about stuff like
- i am the light
- i come in the clouds
- pauls meeting with jesus is described as the light
- heaven is in the sky
- death where it is dark is below.
- the xian holiday is of course "sunday"
- the birth of jesus is the winter solstice the day the sun starts to get stronger after dying in the winter.
-the southern cross just happens to pass at the time of xmas. This is the cross that jesus or the sun dies in
- easter, passover, memorial is just a celebration of spring where the sun finally passes the strength of darknesses, where days are now longer than nights, and everything is growing because of springtime.
- matthew uses astrology to introduce jesus. Jesus is the jewish equivalent of Horus, The three magi (astrologers) or kings are three starts that point to Sirius the star of Horus.
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Scully
One needs to understand that Satan the devil or lord of evil was created to counter goodness.
LOLz.
Know me not, you do.
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mP
@scully
religious types cant very well blame death and sicknesson the good god, so they invent the devil. Today we have JW invent some absurd story where Satan and mankind is allowed to rule by themelves without god to show their incompetance. We see the same behaviour in our language, xians always praise god if they find $5 in the street and blame the devil if they have bad luck.
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Scully
<~~ not the religious type. At all.