So true unshackled, reminds me of:
"I worked hard as a Ministerial Servant and all I got was this lousy drinking problem!"
by Mr. Falcon 34 Replies latest jw experiences
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TMS
Mr. Falcon,
just a few thoughts. . . . . . You're on to something. For those of us who truly believed Jehovah had a hand in all of this, the "appointment by holy spirit" belief was a confirmation that, despite our personal foibles, secret sins and unclean thoughts, the God of the universe, who could read us, knew us better than anyone, was overlooking all of that and certifying as a a spiritual man.
As a congregation overseer at the age of 21, I found some of the other Biblical anecdotes unsettling. For example, the concept that each congregation mention in Revelation had a "star" which we were taught was the congregation overseer. As a young man shuttled across the country to become a troubled congregation's overseer, I did not feel like a star. It was easy to see that many in the community who were not even witnesses were more substantial than me.
In the mid 70's I saw positive proof that appointments were not made by H.S. I'll make this as succinct as possible. Two brothers were recommended as elders. The appointment letter from "the slave," appointed only one. The reason given for the non-appointment was simply put: "too young and not long enough in the truth." What the body of elders found curious is that the one appointed was the younger of the two with fewer years as a JW. It was obvious that the Society had made an error. The kicker was that many on the body did not want to question the odd contradiction, citing the holy spirit's role. The real truth was that the one not appointed was of a minority race. Those of the majority race were reluctant to risk their favorite being unappointed somehow and the minority gain the appointment. As the Congregation Secretary(a new position at that time), I circumvented the local turmoil, sending the Society a letter signed by the Service Committee with several specific questions. I was really curious as a true believer in holy spirit appointments how this would all work out.
Two weeks later the "answer" was received form "Mother." A check mark was placed next to the one originally not appointed. No explanation. No answer to our questions. The man the Society had designated as "too young" and "too new" was appointed as was the other man who was younger and newer.
This was proof to me that holy spirit had nothing to do with the appointments.
tms
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Bungi Bill
TMS,
After seeing what you did, what else is there to say?
Bill.
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Mr. Falcon
Thanks for all the feedback. I feel much better knowing that I wasn't crazy for believing that Holy Spirit is an actual power.
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WTWizard
Good thing I no longer believe that the odious, foul, and rotten BUTT holy spirit can be good. Being appointed "privileges(??)" is nothing but extra work and no benefits. And for what? So you can stagnate and be even more held back spiritually than you were before, and think you are advancing instead.
And yes, I did "sin against the BUTT holy spirit by formally renouncing it. No regrets--it was rubbish anyways. At least, even if for whatever reason I gain nothing, I am not giving up everything and rewarding that Almighty Lowlife Scumbag or his worthless (and probably fictitious) son Jesus. And I am not tied to the LIE-ble for answers in life.
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outsmartthesystem
BOC - "For instance, nice young kid's name comes up for MS at elders meting before CO visit. Sticking point? His haircut. Not too long, per se. . . Just not combed enough.
So the holy spirit, coursing through the very essence and being of the elder body that moment, moved the one jerkoff elder to shoot the kid down because his hair wasn't perfectly combed. Yeah, riiiiight. . . . . Holy spirit. . . . . Riiiight. . . . "
It would be laughable if it wasn't so damn tragic. What is amazing is the amount of people that truly believe that all of this is organized under "holy spirit". My BIL once laughingly recounted the day he was appointed a MS. He was engaging in weekly fornication, smoked the occasional weed and drank heavily (under the age of 21). Yet the holy spirit appointed him? The sad thing is that you could take this example and explain it to a JW and they will say "well....the holy spirit doesn't make mistakes....so obviously....in spite of your BIL's problems, Jehovah felt he would be of some sort of benefit to the congregation. Once that benefit was not longer needed by the organization....jehovah then saw to it that your BIL was removed. That's the way the holy spirit works." I mean.....how do you argue with fantastical theories like that?
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outsmartthesystem
TMS - That was an incredible story. Ya know what the problem is? If I try to share it with my wife, I'll be met with......"you actually believe that? It came from an apostate website! He is obviously making it up!" It is so sad that you cannot get them to see anything outside of their Truman Show type bubble
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TMS
TMS - That was an incredible story. Ya know what the problem is? If I try to share it with my wife, I'll be met with......"you actually believe that? It came from an apostate website! He is obviously making it up!" It is so sad that you cannot get them to see anything outside of their Truman Show type bubble
The story was not embellished in any way, simply accurate. When the appointment letter was initially read to the body of elders, one of my fellow elders could see the anguish on my face and tapped me on the shoulder, saying: " a little disillusioning, huh?"
Here's another incident that happened about 20 years later. I was in a large metropolitan congregation with 11 on our elder body. One of the elders confessed to an emotional affair with his secretary, a young JW girl. He confessed that she had become an emotional confidante and that they had kissed. Two elders were assigned to investigate, sometimes called an exploratory committee. Subsequent to their report, no judicial committee was formed, but the brother was removed as an elder.
About six months later, we were assigned a new circuit overseer. A couple of us noticed that the new circuit overseer and the former elder were a bit chummy, but thought no more about it. On the night the circuit overseer meets with the elders considering, among other things, new recommendations for ministerial servant and elder, this former elder's name was put into play by the circuit overseer himself. He was not on the list of brothers we elders submitted for consideration. During an excruciatingly long meeting, the circuit overseer described how remorseful this brother was, that they had had private meetings where both men had shed tears. He wanted the brother to be recommended again as an elder. This was a very experienced, older elder body, not easily moved. Many concerns were expressed about the effect on the congregation, the effect on this young JW girl and her immediate family, etc.
In the wee hours of the morning, a sort of compromise was reached. Two elders would approach this young woman and her parents, asking if they would be stumbled if this former elder was reappointed. The circuit overseer insisted that be handled before Sunday, the last day of his visit. The two brothers reported in our brief meeting with the circuit overseer after the Sunday meeting that the family indicated they would not be stumbled. The CO added the name of the former elder to our list of recommendations.
Two or three weeks later the appointments came back, The former elder was reappointed, but there was more. An accompanying letter named him as City Overseer. He was also named as Assembly Overseer for the circuit and named as head of the Hospital Liason.
For several years, leadership roles continued this brother's way. He became a substitute Circuit Overseer and a Kingdom Ministry School Instructor. He even gave the public talk at a District Assembly which is unusual for a congregation elder.
Then, more problems surfaced. He owned a small company that sold cell phones, beepers and the associated plans. Several brothers who worked for him noticed that their employer F.I.C.A taxes had not been paid. After an investigation, the brother was again removed as an elder.
Where was the holy spirit in all of this?
tms
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Botzwana
Just having Cyclops and Newman....This thread is full of win.
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Bubblegum Apotheosis
Join the club, ulcers, IBS, anxiety, depression, drinking, drug abuse, smoking weed, and recreational Swinging parties. What was your problem again?