Disfellowshipped! (page 10)

Chariklo

At this moment 2390 people have viewed this thread in the short time it's been up.

I think we can assume that not all of those eyes are ex-JW.

Charliko – By excusing moshe and trying to give an explanation to his comments, you are attaching your name and reputation to what he said to me. I fail to see why you see fit to keep mentioning that both of these threads are linked, and that you need to understand the undercurrent in both. There is some overlap to be sure, but for the most part the comments here have been about my situation as described. The early Malvinas posts have been directed towards that thread. More troubling is the fact that details of my personal life which were revealed in this thread were inexcusably shifted over to the Malvinas thread as a way to attack me. You claim that moshe wasn’t using this to attack me. Really? So his advice to name my child ‘Malvino’ or ‘Malvina’, not to mention his concern for my birth control practices were genuine? For someone who likes to pride themself on researching the facts and discussing them, I would have thought you would have known better than to defend such a man and his comments. This behaviour leads me to believe that moshe for you was a useful tool for saying hurtful things to me, while you cowardly hid behind him and had a few giggle fits. Now that a moderator gets involved, you step right up almost immediately and give her a reading of a Genesis to the Apocalypse-style history of these threads. Not only is this dishonest and misleading, it shows that you’d been one of the biggest cheerleaders (if not the ringleader) of these postings which were clearly designed to embarrass me. You have foolishly painted yourself into a corner with this, and you simply picked the wrong side. You didn’t say those inappropriate comments to me, and I had no real quarrel with you besides a few heated posts. Now you have stepped up as his defender and make the ludicrous claim that moshe’s comments were in no way a personal attack. Good luck with that. It looks like the moderator is in firm disagreement with you on that, along with many others. You couldn’t have just stuck to your guns on the Malvinas issue. You had to applaud and defend moshe sticking his rhetorical knife into me. This couldn’t have been illustrated any better for everyone to see.

moshe – I did not ask for any advice, nor did I seek sympathy. I was introducing myself and telling my story, which I thought was one of the purposes for this forum. If I had sought any sympathy, it certainly wouldn’t be from you.

Chariklo

Now that a moderator gets involved, you step right up almost immediately and give her a reading of a Genesis to the Apocalypse-style history of these threads.

Intriguing. Clearly Lady Lee has not shown you what I wrote, and nor would she.

moshe

Well, excuse us, you should have set us straight on the first page- No opinions wanted- I have it all figured out!

You have a lot of machismo , so maybe you can force those elders into reinstating you. -- Society needs to be based on honesty or else anarchy rules supreme and doesn't honesty begin with the individual? Maybe society works differently in Argentina, if so, I don't think I would like living there.

Well, as Shakespeare said, "to thine own self be true". I think that is still a good motto for us to live by. Please don't go away, we have so few here who can wield words like a sword. My advice is to dump your name and start over with a new one here- something more befitting a woman with the fire of a Eva Peron.

Chariklo

But Eva Peron has good music, even if she was no longer around when it got going!

RubaDub

Maybe I'm just stupid for getting sucked (not in a happy way) into this thread but what is the big deal about the Malvinas anyway ???

If the people of Puerto Rico want their own country, great ... adios. If Hawaii wants to be its own country ... great ... good bye. If Texas wants to go back being the Republic of Texas again .... great .... don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

I don't quite get the idea of "ownership" when it comes to people who live in democratic societies.

Emilie, come to the USA and be a Republican. Then you can focus your life on whether there should be "In God We Trust" on our coins, if burning of the flag should be unconstitutional, whether gays/lesbians should be allowed to marry, whether liquor stores should be closed on Sundays, whether the words "Under God" should be in the pledge of allegiance, etc etc etc. Come here and focus on these important things in life. You'll fit right it !!!

Rub a Dub

Diest

Moshe I think she meant she didn’t need your opinion about her birth control practices. I know you might want to get 15 white guys in a room to talk about it but it wont be necessary.

People make mistakes...people have to live with them.

We all know you are very sensitive about where people are born. We also know that you a prone to conspiracy theories surrounding births.

Las Malvinas son Argentinas

Chariklo – I was referring to your responce within the thread to the moderator where you gave the link to the Malvinas thread. Of course I would have no idea what you PMed her about or her reply. I also understand that these lame ‘gotcha’ tactics are part of your rhetorical strategy.

moshe – You are putting words into my mouth with “no opinions wanted”. Certainly I can take an opinion, but that was not the intent of why I posted here. I had already made up my mind about it and was sharing my plan. Some were immediately opposed to it and expressed themselves as such. I kindly reiterated what I had intended on doing. Perhaps some people have tried the same tactics and would share their experiences? But you apparently are not interested in that and are bent on moving straight into the judgment phase, which you didn’t waste any time doing. If you were not an elder or CO before, it would have been a total shame. You’d be just what they wanted on a judicial committee. You should really take that as a compliment.

Chariklo

I also understand that these lame ‘gotcha’ tactics are part of your rhetorical strategy.

You've lost me. I haven't a clue what you're on about. Maybe someone understands. Not me.

moshe

-Right and Wrong: Musings on Morality in Buenos Aires and Argentina
June 15, 2009

Part I: Right

Since my last post was referred to as having a thesis, which I find somewhat tickling after so many years of hating to write theses, I thought I would be a bit more direct on my thesis for this post: The words "right" and "wrong", as used in their moral or ethical sense, simply do not have equivalents in Spanish. This thesis I believe to be mostly provable.

My secondary argument is that due to the absence of these words, trust is hard to come by in Argentina (or perhaps, the reverse: due the the lack of trust between people in Argentina, the words for right and wrong as we know them in English, do not exist in Spanish (yes I realize that Spanish is spoken in more places than just Argentina and that this argument implies the inclusion of other countries and cultures)). And perhaps, this secondary argument is cyclical or self-reflexive and, in fact, both.

Back to the first argument...

Definitions/translations of the English word "right" into Spanish (when used in the moral sense): bueno, correcto, exacto, justo, derecho (ignoring more tangential/obscure definitions/translations) (reference).

Looking at the reversal of these translations back into English we have: bueno=good, correcto=correct, exacto=exact, justo=just and derecho=a right, as in, the "right to bear arms", "inalienable rights", etc. which is not the word right as defined as the opposite of wrong. Clearly, none of these, in their most common, well taught and well understoond translations mean right as opposed to wrong.

This leaves me with a series of difficult questions: how do Spanish speakers, then, conceive of right it its moral sense in their own heads? How would an English speaker define the word right to a Spanish speaker? How should the translation of right be taught to English speakers learning Spanish? How, ultimately, can this discrepancy be understood as emblematic of culture?

More to follow...

Just as we found that only approximations for the moral sense of the word right exist in Spanish, and no direct translation is really 100% accurate, the case for the word wrong is worse.

Wrong has many denotations in English, just as right did. Some of these definitions certainly capture their approximate translation counterparts in Spanish. These include incorrecto, erroneo, equivocado, etc. We would take these, in the appropriate context in English, as incorrect, erroneous, and mistaken although none are truly right for wrong.

As always, I go back to the exercise of translating a given phrase back and forth starting in one language and moving to the other: If I ask any bilingual person to translate "That's wrong" into Spanish, they would most likely say the best translation would be "Está mal". Literally, this means "That's bad".

What is extremely interesting, and indicative of the absence of the real meaning of the word wrong in Spanish, is that on particular lists of translations of the word wrong into Spanish, the word bad does not even show up. Other Spanish translations include falso, al reves, injusto (false, the reverse, injust).

-http://expatargentina.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/musings-on-morality-part-ii-the-absence-of-wrong/

Disfellowshipped!

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