re: JW Study - an update. I've heard back from him!!

by uk_ex_jw 35 Replies latest jw experiences

  • uk_ex_jw
    uk_ex_jw

    Further to my post the other day re: JW Study who had a conversation with me on Facebook and started questioning his beliefs, he has now contacted me back....will post the quotes underneath.

    His response:

    yes i did tell some brothers how confused i was about the information you sent me, they said does it matter where charles russel is burried, i aggree its abou god not man, and as for peadophillia in past yes it did happen in congregations, but that happens everywhere and they said they did not promote it obviously and that people leave when they done that dark act, they said that the police have been employed in past, there are no more cases i now of, again i dont blame god for this he will sort them out...havent been for a while now , at the end of the day there is lots of stuff on net and as long as i am doing it whole from my heart no one judges me but god, i have so many beautifulll friends in the truth, i believe jehova does have a body of people in the world , you do what you will and all the best i just want to do well and all the religions are in wars and do what they want , i am up for 1 god 1 tounge and not doin waht the rest proclaim to do and be there own gods.... its just that all this came out of nowhere , our chats and was damaging to god , i have no idea what you believe in but your messin with fire if you ask me , dont get lost in apostasy and youtube as its a minefield of miss trust. thats my view, i hardly know you well at all and you keep contacting me asking what they say etc , i too tired to feel lowe cos you dont really say anything good about god you just seem to want to deter me, not once have you mentioned love peace , jesus , just on about me being mislead, you catch my drift, dont mean to come across rude as i am a happy man , but i get your point how you feel and i have always known fun love great friendships and a relation ship with yaweh,jehova etc so shall we just talk footy and world as its clear you can damage my spiritual health as we not talking about good stuff just jw people are mislead when we should be in union regarding the coming of jesus famines wars, disease im gagging for it to come.

    My response:

    When we first spoke about this you stated that you were going to ask me plenty of questions...you then told me that you spoke to the Elder's about the issues we spoke about. All I have asked is how you had got on and I thought you would show me the respect to answer, like I was prepared to do with you.

    I added you as a friend - unaware that you were now a JW. You came onto my page and started attacking my opinions and that of my friends and forcing your opinions onto everyone else.

    It is not my intention to deter you - if you want to be a Jehovah's Witness and that is what makes you happy, then I am pleased for you.

    But when you give an opinion, you have to expect the same back.

    Jehovahs' Witnesses judge other religions and people - like you are doing now towards me. They claim they are not of God as they are surrounded by scandal, paedophilia, false prophecy, apostasy, etc etc. Yet, the facts point towards the JW's being exactly the same. That is not apostasy, that is 100% true and factual.

    You are in theory calling me an apostate - if I was spreading malicious lies and rumours about the Society without any facts or evidence, then you would have me bang to rights and I couldn't disagree.

    I would also agree with you about being playing with fire in relation to God if I thought JW's have the truth - but I know they haven't, and they fall into the same category as the religions they freely judge and criticise.

    Taking into account their history, false prophecies, child abuse, origins, they fit the exact same criteria as the false religion they talk about.

    In conclusion, I know my own heart and mind and I'm sure that you do to.

    I wish you well.

    His response:

    I hardly know you realy mate and if it aint apostasy then what is it , as you aint sayin anything good about god or showing me the path to follow???

    Regarding false prophocies im sure in world war 1 the earth looked like it was the last days , so i prob would have though too, people are always watching and hoping it come soon, so what if got dates wrong the bible says only he knows the hour so i feel if on the planet you may say yeah timing looks right, so easy to get things wrong, its not a masonic organisation i have found out lots since your advice, i dont feel you can answer me any quistion as answers in the bible for me , anyway cant be arsed and bored , just leave me alone .

    My response:

    Mate, you have seen the JW's criticise other religions - yet, they excuse their own shortcomings by stating it is about God, not man. They do not allow the same to be said for other religions - they are all evil and full of scandal.

    All religion is man-made and if you believe the bible, the world and everything in it is lying in the power of the devil.

    Jesus said to test the prophets to see if they are of God, as many are false.

    I have a personal relationship with God and Jesus Christ and I feel at peace in my own heart. I believe in the resurrection and I have a great deal of respect and plenty to be thankful for for what Jesus did for us. I show a good Christian witness by my helpful works towards others, not by knocking on empty doors on a Saturday morning or by living a double life.

    Jesus said I am the way, the truth, the light - you can only come to the Father through me - he never said through an organisation on earth made up of imperfect men who change policy at the drop of a hat and mislead many.

    Charles Taze Russell was a Mason and he used the Cross and Crown on early editions of the Watchtower - so it was originally set up in the Mason's image. He was also on the list of the Illumati bloodlines yet this man was the founder of the Jehovah's Witness religion???? Why would God want to use him to spread the word given he was involved in pagan practices???

    His final response:

    yeah i hear ya, i just want to know the right path , it really gets me down , so what religion are you in , is it christian crusades branch off or catholic or is it do what you want and whats the name of this religion you know found all the answers too

    forget tayes russell isnt it about us and god ?? ohh i dont know, so please do tell me where it is as thats why i am here to find out.

    I've left it at that - I have gone back and forth and he kept repeating himself, asking why the only people giving praise to Jehovah are Jehovahs Witnesses, they are the only ones who do the preaching work, how I am a danger to his spirituality and so forth. He stated later that he hadn't been to any meetings in over a month now due to what I had told him.

    Not being rude, but he seems a bit unstable and vulnerable. He also seems confused...he wants answers on what the truth is and the true religion if it is not Jehovahs Witnesses?

    Any ideas?

  • jookbeard
    jookbeard

    good dialogue , well done

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    It looks like your man is either trying to trap you into admitting you belong to a particular church and then he can rat you out to the elders.............or................the thought stopping cliche of 'where else will you go'? has...well......stopped his thoughts.

    We of course know the actual qusetion was 'to WHOM else shall you go?' meaning Jesus. You might mention this depending on wheter you want to get DF's for 'apostasy'(TM) or not. It's up to him to decide 'where' to go so leave that to him. For now let's get him the hell out of the cult.

    He's obviously going to get his mind addled with the usual logical fallacies and thought stopping cliches!

    I wouldn't argue with him (not suggesting you would), but ask a question that he can't answer unless he relies on unreasoning blind faith. (Try JWFacts website for such questions)

    I like the way you told him the JWs refuse to be measured by the same measure they judge others. Nice one!

    I think the bOrg is assimilating him well.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Less is more.

    Instead of telling him stuff he doesn't want to hear, ask single questions that he would really like to be able to answer, targeting support for the GB's being selected.

    Don't answer any questions that are designed to avoid, change, or slightly alter, your chosen subject.

  • uk_ex_jw
    uk_ex_jw

    This individual is obviously unsettled and now is regretting talking to me. I told him to forget the conversation we have had and go back to the beginning, but he said that he can't do that now.

    It seems to me that the Elder's have lied to him. They say that the Paedophile issue is now corrected, and no longer an issue.

    The Elders have made light of Charles Taze Russell's grave, and he seems to be under the impression that the organisation has no links to Mason's whatsoever.

    He has glossed over the United Nation's scandal completely, as he has regarding the ever changing views on blood, generation etc etc.

    'Leave it in Jehovah's hands' seems to be the answer for any of their faults.

    He seem's to fail to grasp the basics. What I have to remember is that this individual has had 20+ years to study, go away, study, go away and now finally come back and study again. He told me that he was on the verge of baptism until our conversation.

    Now he has approached the Elder's, they will want names of people who have poisoned his mind - otherwise, I would imagine, they will hold him responsible and certainly not want him getting baptised. So I would imagine that he has a straight choice on this, so it doesn't surprise me if he is trying to rat me out.

    I will have a look through JWFacts, any other advice is welcome.

  • besty
    besty

    4500 hours of preaching to get a study -> undone in 5 minutes on facebook....

    ************************** Bethel Lurkers - paying attention?? ********************

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep
    The Elders have made light of Charles Taze Russell's grave, and he seems to be under the impression that the organisation has no links to Mason's whatsoever.

    This is CTR's headstone

    .... and the bOrg has no documented links to the Masons, which is why you should stop telling him stuff. If you tell him something that is wrong or that cannot be proved, you look like a twit and they will trash your character for it.

    UN, Blood, Generation ..... slow down already..... just tackle ONE subject at a time .... a subject that is important TO HIM .... NOT YOU.

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    What about offering to email him a copy of the elder's secret book so he can read 1st hand about the way elders are to handle paedos? I have it on PDF and if he doesn't believe it's a tamper free copy he can ask the elders to compare it with theirs. I have a copy I can email you if you need one.

    Just a thought.....

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Good to see you are making the guy think, just a word of advice, it pays to make sure of your facts before saying something to him, as JW's will pick on one mistake and dismiss out of hand everything else you said.

    For example, you claim that C.T Russell was a Freemason, there is no proof that he was. He was familiar with the lore and language for sure, I guess he had close relatives who were Masons, but he, apparently, was not. The use of the cross and crown is not exclusively or even particularly, Masonic.

    A minor point for sure, but enough for JW's to pick on.

    Edited to add : WOOPS ! I missed Black Sheeps post above, good advice there too, stick to one point and make him answer.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep
    offering to email him a copy of the elder's secret book

    That's a good idea if you want to scare him off so that he won't talk to you again.

    If you want him to talk, you must appear to be 'redeemable', and not Satan's minion.

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