by uk_ex_jw 35 Replies latest jw experiences
Was going to add, but Black Sheep already stated it...
There is no evidence that Charles Taze Russell was a Mason.
Some of the early Watchtower artwork seems to indicate a strong Masonic influence - but the Masons were a popular and influential organization in America from its inception.
It isn't surprising that some of the Masonic emblems found their way into "International Bible Student" literature.
My BF is a Mason, and from what he told me about the history, Russell was actually removed from the Masons for sharing things they were supposed to keep among themselves. Although Russell said he was not a Mason in one of his speeches, from what I was told, he was telling the truth at that point because he'd been kicked out already. Of course, I can't show evidence of this because it's not something I can obtain written information on since I'm not a Mason, nor do I qualify to be in Eastern Star (because BF and I aren't married).
That said, I applaud your efforts to get this guy to see reason. However, I find that when talking to people about the JW's, you have to feel out what will have the greatest effect on them. Some people (like myself) were convinced with the pedophilia scandals and the UN, as well as other hypocrasies. Other people find the flip flops in doctrine (how can they have holy spirit if they keep changing things back and forth?) to be the nail in the coffin. Still others are convinced when they see that the Bible itself is completely twisted by the JW's to suit their own agenda.
It seems to me that he is seeking one right religion to follow. Unfortunately, this doesn't exist. If he desires to be a Christian and follow Jesus' teachings, then he must get rid of the idea that an organization is needed in order to do so. I would work on that angle. Discuss the religious aspect of it with him. Use Jesus' teachings themselves. Ask open-ended questions and get him to tell you the answers based on how the Bible READS, not based on how the JW's interpret it through their scripture-mining.
I wish you luck if you decide to pursue this.
"Not being rude, but he seems a bit unstable and vulnerable. He also seems confused."
Every congregation has people of this type hanging around on the verge. Studied on & off for years - some family connection with JWs from long ago. Often divorced , lonely , chaotic background , single parent with lots of needy kids , drug or alcohol issues - only JWs show any kind of interest in them. Every now & again some well meaning elder or pioneer desperate for a study "reactivates" them & they turn up for a few meetings only to disappear again for a couple of years. "Spiritual submarines" we used to call them. The guy sounds like a lot of work for any JW mentor - good luck to them. Every now & again some sister used to ask to me study with a guy like this - I really " couldn't be arsed" to use the guy's expression! - and always used to decline.
Up to you how much time you want to spend with this guy. You have given him some information & he has kind of dismissed it on flimsy grounds. People like this really can't be swayed by reasoned arguments - for them , it all all about being social rejects who have people showing interest in them. They could just as easily be picked up by the Mormons or Born Agains. To be honest , especially considering your own situation , I would leave him to it. The JWs are welcome to have him and , if anything , having a degree of association with ( in most cases ) quite decent people will probably be good for him and "keep him out of mischief" , as a previous poster said.
ask him to ask why god has a whole book about priests, shaving, beards, and other nonsense but nothing not a single word against slavery, beating women, raping kids or virgins? does the bible have an agenda, who wrote it and who benefits from its message back thrn.
trying to convince JW's that there is something wrong is going to end in a dead end - each and every time. Open up the debate. If he has questions then ask him what his questions are and provide facts to those. Give what the JW teaches, add in the facts and present it to him - with references. Let him take it from there.
Other than that - apostacy and youtube - hehe youtube is the debil!
I find that when talking to people about the JW's, you have to feel out what will have the greatest effect on them.
Exactly. Never mind what has an effect on you, you must try to determine what will have an effect on The JW that you are talking to.
You don't need to a have full blown debate with a winner and a loser. You just don't want them to sleep well tonight.
