Shawn10538, you go and f***ck yourself off, maybe that will help you getting your baptism annulled, otherwise you are f***cked.
Can one have their JW baptism annulled?? Seriously?
by mind blown 34 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Nickolas
What becomes more amazing to me, the longer I lurk in here reading interchanges such as this one, is how much awful power most people bestow upon the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Such fear. My 2p. It's a matter of choice. The courageous thing for the OP to do is pack up his most valued belongings and leave, and somehow find a way to start a new life. Some considerable advanced planning might be in order. The less courageous thing to do is seek a technicality that only allows him to stay trapped within the Watchtower delusion while his life is frittered away being treated as a lesser mortal by his family and peers. That doesn't sound like winning to me. What is lost? If it's loss of family relationships, then maybe you need to lose them if it finally means being honest with yourself. There is a world of opportunity out there if you have courage enough to seek it and pay the price of some hardship. It is sad the Watchtower has enslaved the minds of people who are dear to you, but you are not first place in their hearts and they should not be first in yours. They will shun you if you leave. How sad. Their love for you will not be strong enough to overcome the love they have for Jehovah and his Organization. Their choice, not yours. Your choice is whether or not you have the courage to start a new life. Tough place to be in. I don't envy you, but it could be your opportunity to escape. My df'ed nephew did this. He broke away from his Jehovah's Witness family and wife and struck out on his own, and he is doing quite well, the loss of part of his immediate family notwithstanding. Those of us standing outside of the Watchtower faith still treat him like family. I'm quite proud of him.
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Bobcat
Have any noticed the anomaly between baptism and disfellowshiping? At the KH they resist calling anyone "brother" or "sister" if they are not baptized. (Sometimes an established non-baptized publisher, sometimes not.)
When they disfellowship they say, '[So-and-so] is no longer one of JWs.' Yet, the verses they apply towards disfellowshiping (1 Cor 5:9 - 13) refer to "anyone called a brother." (Notice present tense.)
At a fairly recent (some months ago, I think) WT where this was discussed, the article emphasized "anyone" so as to include relatives. There was no mention of "called a brother."
It would seem to me that they technically end what the verses say about how to act towards one described there when they say he is no longer one of JWs. But the unspoken rule is: 'Its only technical when we say its technical.'
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Nickolas
The Watchtower is a house of cards, Bobcat. Dig even superficially and it starts to tremble. Who do you want to convince the WT is not what it says it is? Is it yourself?
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Band on the Run
My mom's extended family were all serious Witnesses. Bethel, prison. I knew I could not pretend. Losing what little love I had seemed unbearable. They saw concrete proof that I affirmatively did very nonWitness things. To my astonishment, they just pretended they did not know. I was so afraid that I was never truly myself. I censored every word out of my mouth. When my aunt was imminently see our Christmas tree, I screeched to my younger sister to grab a sheet, wrap the tree, look out to see if anyone was underneath the landing and throw it down three floors. If I were more candid, I don't think they would have had much to do with me. I will never know b/c I was not so courageous. They never stopped their Witness stuff out of respect for me.
Every family is different. I thought my mom was a sap for hiding her beliefs from them. Yet I grew up to be my mom. No one can gauge what another person can tolerate. My mom's family was ideal except for the Witnesses. They provided me with so much. College was wrong but I was an exception to the rule. They came to my graduation and party. Going to their KH and getting away from a violent home to a suburban KH was like a Mediteranean vacation. The joke is that we all knew exactly where we stood. No one was fooled.
Also, I was loved very much unless another strange Witness was present. When my uncle had a heart attack, I rushed to the ER. We were having a sweet time. A brother from his KH, a black one, told the hospital he was his brother. All sweetness ended. I was persona non grata.
I never voted. Yet my home was politcal central with flyers and massive amounts of buttons and stickers. When the Witnesses left and acted as though my cherished books were sheltering demons, I looked around. I saw a Beatles shrine with touches of NY and Impressionism, punctuated by Chinoisserie.
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Nickolas
hey, BotR, ltns. Can one's mind ever be the same after it has been raped by the WTBTS?
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blondie
*** w58 8/1 p. 477 pars. 15-16 Baptism ***It is obvious that some transformation of the individual’s life takes place prior to baptism. He would have to clean up his life in event that he had been living immorally or had shared in practices that were unclean according to God’s standards. In event that an individual was baptized but had not cleaned up his life properly and was still living immorally or otherwise infracting God’s law, baptism could not consummate a dedication to do Jehovah’s will. Such a pretense of dedication would not be accepted by Jehovah. An unclean offering is not acceptable to Almighty God and we are to present ourselves to do God’s clean will.
In event a person found himself in this condition, it would be necessary for him to clean up his life, make a true dedication and then be baptized again. Even though an unclean individual had been baptized, his dedication would not have been acceptable to Jehovah. When he cleans up, then he should be rebaptized because under such conditions his dedication can be acceptable to Almighty God and the water baptism is valid.*** w62 6/1 pp. 332-333 pars. 13-14 Why Be Baptized? ***Certain personal circumstances existing at the time of baptism would necessitate rebaptism. The psalmist David, in a song of praise to Jehovah, stated: “Who may ascend into the mountain of Jehovah, and who may rise up in his holy place? Anyone innocent in his hands and clean in heart, who has not carried My soul to sheer worthlessness, nor taken an oath deceitfully. He will carry away blessing from Jehovah and righteousness from his God of salvation.” (Ps. 24:3-5) Dedication is a bilateral arrangement. Jehovah is the superior and we are the inferiors. Jehovah makes the terms of dedication; we comply with them. He requires that we first repent, turn from our former unclean practices and present ourselves as clean before him.
We could not imagine Jehovah accepting the dedication of anyone living in an immoral situation or doing at the time of baptism things that would result in his being cut off from Jehovah’s favor by disfellowshiping, if he were already in the Christian congregation. In ordinary business a contract is not valid unless it is signed and sealed properly by all parties concerned. On this principle it would be necessary for a formerly unfit person to be baptized again even though after his former baptism he discontinued these wrongs and made advancement in the truth and service of Jehovah. The first baptism could not symbolize a dedication made under proper circumstances that Jehovah could accept.*** w10 2/15 p. 22 Questions From Readers ***
Under what circumstances might rebaptism be considered?
Under certain circumstances, a baptized person may want to give thought to the validity of his baptism and may consider rebaptism. At the time of baptism, for instance, an individual may secretly have been living in a situation or engaging in a practice that could have resulted in his being disfellowshipped if he had already been validly baptized. Could he make a dedication to God in such circumstances? Such an individual would have been in a position to make a valid dedication to Jehovah only if the unscriptural conduct had been discontinued. Therefore, a person baptized while such a serious impediment existed may appropriately consider the necessity of rebaptism.
What about an individual who was not practicing sin at the time of his baptism but whose subsequent wrongdoing required the formation of a judicial committee? Suppose he then claimed that he did not fully understand what he was doing at the time of his baptism and said that his baptism was not truly a valid one. When meeting with a wrongdoer, the elders should not raise questions about his baptism and ask whether he feels that his dedication and baptism were valid. After all, he heard a Scriptural discourse about the significance of baptism. He answered affirmatively questions regarding dedication and baptism. Then he changed his clothing and was physically immersed in water. It is, therefore, reasonable to believe that he fully understood the seriousness of what he was doing. The elders would thus treat him as a baptized person.
If the individual raises the issue of the validity of his baptism, the elders may direct his attention to TheWatchtower of March 1, 1960, pages 159 and 160, and February 15, 1964, pages 123 to 126, where the matter of rebaptism is discussed in detail. Eventual rebaptism under certain circumstances (such as a lack of sufficient Bible understanding when one was baptized) is a personal matter.
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Quarterback
I guess the substance of Blondie's research is that now, in 2012, if rebaptism is a personal matter, then Annullment should be a personal matter.
However, there will be resistance to this.
BOTR did bring up a interesting point about the baptism of John, and how it changed later to become the baptism of Jesus (in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit)
The baptism today practicedby the ORG is different than the one in the first century. The ORG uses a Legalistic baptism that includes a list of questions, and a formal response before an audience acknowledging this commitment. Of course this legal contract may not be binding on those that wouldn't fit the legal age for signing or entering a contract. Whether this is a loophole or not, remains for a Legal expert to explain. That is why the Catholic legal case is an interesting one. The Catholics practice infant baptisms where the infant is not of age to make that decision.
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Broken Promises
I know of someone who had their baptism anulled because on the day of his baptism he admitted he didn't even believe in God.
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WTWizard
I don't think so. From within the organization, once you are baptized, you are dedicated. You leave or are disfellowshipped, they classify that as a sin. You are still baptized, but in disgrace, to the organization. If you choose not to be reinstated, you are treated like rubbish and they will do all they can to interfere with your life.
And, to the filthy angels, it is just as bad. Once those scumbag angels see you dedicated to their god Jehovah, they will do all they can to defend his property. You later try to renounce or revoke such dedication, the angels absolutely will not uphold that revocation or renounciation. And, when you try to rededicate your soul to another God (like Satan), they will interfere with it--even acting like your soul isn't yours to dedicate to that other God. At their discretion, they can block incoming energy from other Deities (whether it be Jesus or Satan), block your communications with those other Deities, corrupt such communications, or corrupt outgoing energy from you so, instead of attracting what you need and want into your life, the resulting energy field will attract whatever the filthy angels want it (whether it be Nigeria missions, Value Destroyer Training School, recapture within the witlesses, or whatever).
As for those thinking positive thinking is the answer here, it isn't. Positive energy has the potential to put out energy--in the form of waves. All the filthy angels have to do is put out the same energy but 180 o out of phase, and the net output is precisely zero. If they put out slightly lower amplitude, the energy is reduced (and, along with the addition of other outputs, easy to corrupt). Or, if the angels put out the same energy at a slightly different frequency, and adjust the phase, you get precisely nothing while someone else gets the benefits (this is similar to the standing wave phenomenon you may be familiar with with your audio system).
And no, once the angels view you as dedicated to Jehovah, they will not let go. Ever. Not in this lifetime, not in a future lifetime, not ever. Yes, you forget it once you die. But upon reincarnation, the angels remember and will reconstruct your environment so you cannot connect with other Deities (like Satan, Beelzebub, Astaroth, or any other Demons that want to help). And once you get old enough to be independent, the filthy angels will simply set up another barrier--tampering with energy input and output while manipulating your circumstances so you get pulled (tricked if possible, forced when necessary) into right-hand path again. And so the cycle goes on endlessly.
And, even worse than the Washtowel baptism, the angels will not give you a break. You can lose the hounders. You can move out of town and not transfer your publisher card, and that might stop the witlesses from finding you. The witlesses often lose members, at least for a time, due to their own laziness. But, you cannot get away from those filthy angels. And they worry so much about the Demons? At least the Demons don't go out of their way to bind your soul forever like those filthy angels and Jehovah.