What is with abusive atheists?

by Fernando 187 Replies latest jw friends

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  NewChapter

  That's fine Fernando----but I'm still wondering where the thread is on abusive believers? Since you have dedicated an entire thread to abusive atheists, I think that abusive believers deserve a bit more than a footnote. Do you see the issue? This thread speaks volumes. This thread explains why when a believer is bashing the hell out of an atheist---believers say nothing. In reality, I don't care that they say nothing----except when it happens to them they scream victim and expect atheists to chide other atheists---something they are unwilling to do to other believers.

  To be honest, I am not often bothered by intentional insults lobbed by believers. What I AM tired of is this idea that the atheists are abusive and offensive----and the believers are poor, persecuted victims. I was called all manner of names, and I laughed. I laughed for many reasons--one was that no believer came to my 'aid' which I didn't need but it's the principal. I laughed because the thin skin of some believers is telling. But if I can shrug it off, so can they.

  In fact, the one time that I very explicity said that a certain line of reasoning was overly personal, and uncalled for, the person doubled and tripled down and followed me around on other threads. Now that person has permanently lost my respect, and I suppose all goals have been achieved.

  So how about that believer thread?
• 

  NewChapter

  Well, this person really isn’t an atheist because…”

  I've never seen that---but would love a link. For the most part, we just understand that atheism is not a belief system, and therefore some atheists do terrible things---it's no reflection on atheism and we don't have to answer for them.

  I'm just sensing some false equivalencies here, and it's kind of irritating.
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  laverite

  Hi New Chapter. Wow, that is seriously disturbing (the following you around on other threads part). Yikes.
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  laverite

  New Chapter, I'm probably not expressing myself clearly. What I tried to say was that although I have seen Christians claim other Christians were not really Christians, I have not seen the corresponding thing among atheists -- meaning I haven't seen atheists claim that other atheists are not really deserving of the title atheist. There isn't a thread, because I haven't seen it happen. Does that make sense? Sorry for any confusion.
• 

  tec

  In reality, I don't care that they say nothing----except when it happens to them they scream victim and expect atheists to chide other atheists---something they are unwilling to do to other believers.

  I have never seen another believer do this... other than me mentioning the double standard. (never screamed victim; just pointed out that double standard) That a believer is expected to chide another believer; when the atheist making that demand or commenting on the bias... does the exact same.

  In fact, the one time that I very explicity said that a certain line of reasoning was overly personal, and uncalled for, the person doubled and tripled down and followed me around on other threads. Now that person has permanently lost my respect, and I suppose all goals

  have been achieved.

  Do you recall anyone who stated that they thought your wishes should be respected in this instance? Valid or not, it obviously bothered you a great deal and you asked for the comparison to stop... at least in regard to you.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  Bubblegum Apotheosis

  Fernando, we can have our own threads, let them have their threads. Start a thread adn we can talk about this, we don't need a conflagaration with hurt feelings. Paz a ud!
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  NewChapter

  Thanks Laverite---Now I understand.

  I think it is because atheism isn't really a belief system with required behavior---if that makes sense. I've always said it is a position of neutrality. Nothing in atheism requires one to be good or brutal---but people are what they are. We don't have a problem accepting that. We don't testify that atheism makes everyone better people---although for some of us, atheism has made us better people, but not exactly atheism---it's more the letting go of hurtful attitudes that were required by religion, but not required by nonbelief. Think about homosexuality---nothing in atheism requires a pro or anti stance---so becoming an atheist did allow some of us to let go of judgement. So if an atheist chooses to be judgemental and hate, they must also take full responsiblity for their attitude and don't have scriptures or a lord to back them up.

  However not all Chrisitians are judgemental in this area---but there is the idea that believing in Christ will make you a better person. So when someone horrible claims to believe, it kind of invalidates the notion---therefore they must not be REAL Christians. Yet many of them are, they are just screwed up like people everywhere.
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  NewChapter

  Do you recall anyone who stated that they thought your wishes should be respected in this instance? Valid or not, it obviously bothered you a great deal and you asked for the comparison to stop... at least in regard to you.

  Yes, as I recall, that was you. I also recall that it was only when you said it that it stopped. Nothing I said made any difference whatsoever. And I think that was quite kind of you---however it was dreadful on the other person's part. It wasn't a general complaint about style---it was a very specific complaint about a very specific argument and it only grew bigger and bigger until you stepped in. What a shame. But thank you for stepping in.

  NC
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  laverite

  Thanks, New Chapter, for your post. I agree 100% with everything you wrote. It's beautifully said and I think you've really hit the nail on the head about why these two scenarios are different. I also appreciate how and why atheism can make some people better people by letting go of judgemental beliefs that they previously held. Nicely articulated, NC!
• 

  Qcmbr

  What I'd like to know is what drives some Christians to be victims? On the proportionally small number of threads where atheists and the religious debate it can seem to be abusive when the paucity of facts supporting faith based worldviews is exposed repeatedly and the only evidence of magic is subjective experiences generated within a believers head. It is very difficult to critique or argue against a personal experience without being personal, the religious indulge in telling imaginary experiences and then expect to be taken seriously.

  Some believers also treat this board as somewhat more than a place to discuss and instead , based upon hallucinations, fulfill a divine mandate to preach. You can see it in their posting style where they claim a special privileged communication line with a version of their particular god which endows them with special powers and unique insights which they use to lead the gullible ( this is how cults begin and how real abuse starts .) Even amongst the wiser ex-JW there are those seeking a guru. The religious v atheist debates are dominated by a few and are not representative of all believers.

  Where believers have not preached or attempted to pass off useless information as having great meaning they get treated with general respect. Respect begets respect. I , as a fairly vocal atheist, can have plenty of solid uplifting conversations with believers who are willing to explore their belief or another topic without referring everything to woo. I wouldn't enter a church spouting Dawkins but some obnoxious believers enter any place and selectively spout the bible or last nights magic dream.