Is the Borg "really" guilty in the Candace Conti case ???

by RubaDub 102 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • falseprophet
    falseprophet

    Simple. Change the "two witness" rule to allow a court case to act as a "second witness".

    Then, report the offense to the police. If the person is found guilty in court, they can be disfellowshipped and be dealt with by the authorities.

    It removes responsibility to solve/stop any crimes by elders and allows authorities to act immediately. The person can be removed as a JW if found guilty. Plus, any spokesman can say "We reported this to the police" and "we have now removed this person as being a JW" which will look good to the public and JWs.

  • undercover
    undercover

    I can't believe the majority of you are still somehow advocating disfellowshipping.

    Nothing wrong with DFing, in and of itself. If you don't play by the rules of the organization you joined, you can be removed.
    Same for the military, your job, the Boy Scouts, etc.
    It's the absolute and coerced shunning of a DFd person that is the problem and is deplorable in how the WTS expects its followers to go about it. But that's not the issue being raised.
    DFing and shunning exist. That's just the way it is.

    The main question is that once a predator is found out in the congregation, whether DFd or not, how do you go about alerting the congregation that a predator is/was present?
    Rub's point was - if the WTS can be sued for calling out adulterers/fornicators, then how can you expect them to call out other types of wrongdoing?
    To me, the answer is simple. If someone committed a crime, especially a crime that hurts children, you have to obligation of alerting the congregation, that this criminal is among you.

  • blindnomore
    blindnomore

    Rub a Dub, I haven't read entire thread so forgive me if my following comment has already been considered.

    First of all, there's a fundemental difference between 'SIN' and 'CRIME.'

    Have you ever heard anyone being publickly recorded/announced by law for being adulterer or smoker? Public Sex Offender Registration is there for the purpose: warning public that 'dangerous sex criminals' are in your community! Because of its heinoussness nature of crime, its arrangement is enforced by the law. He/she has no legal right if their name and crime were to announced publickly(whether in the public record or on the church board). It's there to protect the public especially vulunerable children not the criminals. The Criminal lost his privacy right voluntarily and rightfully. He/she deserves public condemnation(but cut off from human contact such as disfellowshipping) as result of their very own heinous violent conduct.

    For any ogranization to conceal and proctect the criminal(convicted or not) is putting themslevs for guilty of condoning the crime and commiting the crime of obstruction of justice, let alone punishing the victims and their family while concealing the criminal with all their power at all cost. The Watchtower has been got away with their unlawful and unethical conduct from being prosecuted for the crime of Obstruction of justice. (referance: Warren Jeffs' case). I know for fact, I would have been prosecuted at no time for the very same thing that the Watchtower and their elders have done.

    As far as concerning in making annoucement of disfellowshipping detail over being immoral according to their policy? THERE'S NO RIGHT WAY TO DO THIS! It is unscriptural and inhumane. The word 'disfellowship' is not even in the New Word Translation. The closest word is 'expel' in NWT. Why doesn't the Watchtower use this biblical language instead? Because its practice was unchristian and it was condemed by Jesus. It was commonly practiced among Jewish Community enforced by the their religeous leaders, the Pharisees! Jesus was expelled from the synagogue by the Pharisees.

    John 12:42; many even of the rulers actually put faith in him[Jesus], but because of the Pharisees they would not confess him, in order not to be expelled from the synagogue.

    John 9:22; His parents[who's blind son just was healed by Jesus] said these things because they were in fear of the Jews for the Jews had already come to an agreement that if anyone comfessed him as Christ, he should get expelled from the synagogue.(Read entire chapter 12 for back ground story)

    Jesus himself said, healthy one doesn't need physician but ailing one does. If you kick out those who's in need and refrain from doing right thing in fear of your religeous leaders, what is the purpose of your religeon in the first place?

    Disfellowshipping was practiced by the Pharisees whom Jesus called 'hypocrites,' 'Blind guides,' 'Serpents, offspring of vipers.'-Matt 23rd chapter.

    The Watchtower had brought/are bringing/will bring much unspeakable sorrow to their followers with this despicable pharisiac doctrine along with countless men made polices , rules, and inhumane procedures.

    It's not 'you are damned if you do, you are damned if you don't' but 'you are damn. Period!' for enforcing a such inhumane practice.

    The bottom line, the Watchtower is wrong and guilty in God's(Father of Jesus) eye!

    Edit:Convicted sexual criminals are to accompany by another responsible adult around children at all times(by law in the US) besides public's right to have knowledge of their identity. The organizations must apply the law and should make an arrangement accordingly within their community.

  • Knowsnothing
    Knowsnothing

    Nothing wrong with DFing, in and of itself. If you don't play by the rules of the organization you joined, you can be removed. - undercover

    #gigantic facepalm#

    Getting kicked out of an organization vs. getting shunned are two completely different things.

  • blindnomore
    blindnomore

    Knowsnothing, My expreesion 'being getting kicked out' meant 'getting shunned' in JWs term.

    The Watchtower is dead wrong and guilty in human's eye as well!

  • JWdaughter
    JWdaughter

    I am not about DFing. I am about not letting pedophiles associate with children in churches. any. ever.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Part of the problem is language. The Wt was not found giulty. It was found liable. Strict liability exists for certain dangerous acitvities - such as having wild animals in a domestic setting. You can have no neglience and still be found liable. A lot of cost/benefit analysis takes place.

    A high level priest in Philadelphia is charged with crimes. If he is found guilty and the appellate courts back the trial court, it will have an immense impact on these cases. Guilt involves a crime, not a civil action. This award was to make the plaintiff whole after her ordeal.

    Newspapers called it a unique verdict which scares me. I am hoping it is the harbinger of a new way of looking at pedophilia.

    This creep, Kendricks, is reportedly still an active JW. Let the WT play religion but let the authorities be the government. There are many appealable issues, though.

  • undercover
    undercover

    Nothing wrong with DFing, in and of itself. If you don't play by the rules of the organization you joined, you can be removed. - undercover

    #gigantic facepalm#

    Getting kicked out of an organization vs. getting shunned are two completely different things.

    Read the next couple of sentences.

    Here, I'll quote it for you:

    Same for the military, your job, the Boy Scouts, etc. It's the absolute and coerced shunning of a DFd person that is the problem and is deplorable in how the WTS expects its followers to go about it.

    So we agree... being DFd and being shunned are two different things. Being shunned is the issue, not the official DFing procedure. If there were no shunning, people would be begging to be DFd, or DAing themselves right and left.

  • blindnomore
    blindnomore

    Razziel brought an interesting point on page 3.

    That reminded me of the case in local KH. The elders, directed by the Legal Department, forced to make the report the child sexual abuse to the authority some months later because of the role they played in the crime. How did they do it?

    ' Anonymously as a friend of father of the child'

    When family checked this with authority a few days later, authority told the family that they do not take anonymouse report that's with very limited information. So the authority dismissed it.

    That's how the Watchtower and their elders handle the child sexual abuse case. They technically did reported it. It's all about theocratic warfare. Never ever ever in your wildest dream believe the Watchtower has your interest by any means! Their deviousness is mind-boggling.

    I am truely sorry for those who you were victimized by the predator and re-victimized by the Watchtower. You wouldn't have any idea what it is like unless you have first-hand experience.

    Why the Watchtower responsible for the crime of their members? Because the Watchtower provides safe-haven for the predator and make the crime bad to worse for the victim with their protecting themselves only policy.

    edit: for victims, always double check and follow up your local elders claims. I can't emphasize it enough!

  • RubaDub
    RubaDub

    MMXIV ...

    I read your 12 points and you have certainly thought the matter out from a practical perspective. Excellent.

    Although it would be nice, I don't see the Society requiring background checks on everyone on the congregation. We all know they would find out things that they don't want to know. It would open a huge can of worms.

    Point 6 is interesting. Yes, why not have a brother or sister assigned to sit with the person during the meetings, go to the bathroom with him/her, etc. I don't think most religions would refuse to allow a repentant person to enter and worship based on past history. The conference call thing is an interesting idea, especially for the weeknight meeting. But I don't think they would prevent him/her from coming to the Kingdom Hall on a Sunday. But having a sort of chaperone makes a lot of sense.

    Rub a Dub

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