Why be so judgemental....

by jerome 42 Replies latest jw friends

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  jerome

  I just got through reading a thread based upon a statement from happy man.

  From his post I gather that he Is still an active Jehovah Witness. And thinks that the good in the Organisation outweighs the bad.

  -----------------------------------

  Why is it that when someone comes here for the first time or that when someone says something that is pro-Watchtower the members of this board decend apon them like a piece of meat thrown into a kennel full of hungry dogs?

  When I first came here I thought that the members of this board were being a little bit too judgemental in their approach to the Watchtower Organisation. Even though I now know why they have this attitude the organisation there is no need to display this attitude to a newcomer to the board. i got this impression because pratically nothing good is said about the WTBS on this board. Well some of you do take the time to address the positive aspects of the Organisation but when that happens it usually ends up with the thread being hijacked with accusations made against the person in question who has been making the positive statements. We can all agree that the WT cannot be ALL bad (well at least I think we can) so why is it that when someone makes a positive statemen regarding the WT, especially someone who is a newcomer to the board or claims to be an active witness that such a response is provoked.

  Rather than politely informing people whom still believe that the Organisation has more truth in it than bad because of its public teachings, that this may only be just the outward appearance and that they should look into matters more deeply and they might then see why people hold unto such strong vocal anti-witnes sentimates (sp?), you jump on the person and just bombard them with negative info regarding the WT. I learned from this board that that is not the right way to approach the situation. By so strongly expressing your anti-WT opionions you only more prove the point that the World as a whole against the teachings of the witnesses.

  I know that people here are still suffering from the pain of leaving the Organisation and that causes them to loose their objectivity in discussing anti-WT related issues but cant people just realize sometimes that this dogmatic attitude towards thes said issues is what causes people to revert further into the Organisation.

  We all like to be sure about what we are saying but being judgemental dosent seem to work when talking to a witness.
  This Organisation seems to be very caple of providing anwsers for evry question that you can possibly seem to bring up so when you present an argument that you have used to come to a conclusion that you are certain of and then the witness or person begining to study goes back to the WT and finds out that what you are saying may not be totally true according to and them a seemingly logical explaination for the question presented it may only cause you to loose credibility.

  So in future when dealing with people who seem to still have pro-witness attitudes do we really have to start stating the conclusion conclusions that we have already come to after much thought and research wouldent it be best to present them as opinions rather than judgement? { The last statement obviously applys to people who do not yet have all the information} Sure they may be facts but there is always another side to the story.

  Is this a board not an arena where people can obtain help? If someone says that they think that the watchtower has more good in it than bad wouldent it be best to suggest to them that you think that may not be the case and that they should look further into the matter?

  You all have been there done that but in my short time here dosent my suggestion seem to make sense?

  ------------------------

  I have tried to be as reasonable as possible on this post. As soon as anyone expresses pro-WT opinions you start making acuations about them. Is that really necessary? I must be missing something here.
  cant people try to be a little more objective regardless of what they already know?

  Just a suggestion.

  I have already come to my own conclusions and I realize that in doing so when you make statements that reflect negatively on the organisation that these same statements sound very judgemental about the organisation and can cause you to loose credibility.
  Just beaware that anyone researching the Organisation that is studying will expect this kind of attitude. Bearing this in mind remember why the book Crisis of Conscience is so suscessful at allowing to see both sides of the Organisation simply because of its tone.

  This statement may be a judgement in itself but here it is:

  Don't be so judgemental because you were once one to be condeming the man on the other side of the fence. It so happened that you later found out that you were on the WRONG side all along.

  I dont think that you can convince any person that the Organisation is false but that they have to convince themselves!

  I hope I listen to my own advice.

  [This post is in the process of being edited]

  The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and it you may get hurt.
• 

  dungbeetle

  If you're talking about me, I made the point and continue to make the point that for all the 'good' in the Watchtower, these children are dead. A lot of 'good' it did them.

  I'm also making the point that these pro-watchtowerites aren't doing very much for these children. Nada, zilch, etc. etc.

  Where is THEIR outrage, THEIR righteous indignation, THEIR sorrow--and some practical expression of it.

  You have to ask yourself what kind of a person are these pro-Watcherites, when they have nothing good to say about people who are trying to save these children.

  Keep up the good work on these discussion boards, pro-Watchtowerites.
  Couldn't bring the 'Borg' down without you.

  ZERO OR NEGATIVE GROWTH IN 150 COUNTRIES----COMING UP!!!

  In 1975 a crack team of publishers was sentenced to death by a judicial commiteee. They promptly escaped from the cult and now live life on the run. If you have a problem ... and if you can find them ... maybe you can contact the A--postate Team"
• 

  plmkrzy

  Jerome, This is no place to be objective or openminded if you are looking for people to like you or be popular you will have to sign on as someone else and say a lot of really hateful things against all JW's even if you have family and friends that are JWs and you love them. Otherwise you will have to settle for making a "FEW" friends.
  I personally prefer haveing a "FEW" good friends over having a lot of unstable ones. Thats Just The Way Things Are.

  I hated the cliks in the congergations. They are not suppose to exist in a "House of the Lord" well pooh! they do.
  But here it's different. You have to expect Clicks. But many of them are probably only a couple posting as a bunch so it's not really as bad as it appears to be. Just bloe it off. It's really harmless.
  I don't care whose in or out. This is SUPPOSE to be a discussion board FOR BOTH. "Old habbits die hard"

  "The fellow that agrees with everything you say is either a fool or he is getting ready to skin you."
  - Kin Hubbard
• 

  larc

  Jerome,

  I am retired, so I have time to read everything that is posted here. This thread of Happy Man was not his first. On an earlier post, he challenged Amazing to answer some questions. When Amazing did not respond quickly, he challenged him again. Amazing came back with some very thorough answers, as you might expect. Despite this, Happy Man is harping on the same subject, so people naturally loose patience with his broken record routine. I hope that clarifies the situation for you.
• 

  rekless

  I don't think any body is judgemental. We express our sentiments of subjects which may include people.

  It disturbs me to think any one can be so close minded when they are seeking out opposite thought patterns.

  If Happy Man wants consumation on all his feeling let him talk at the Kingdom Hall where everybody is willing to keep their points of view in the same basket.

  He can not tell us anything about the WTS that we don't know, but on the other hand we can tell him everything about the WTS that he doesn't know; therefore, if one is brain dead and doesn't want to hear the other side of the issue then don't back us up in a corner ..

  Hell is truth seen too late. H.G.Adams
• 

  refiners fire

  the World as a whole against the teachings of the witnesses.

  wrong. The "world" of none witnesses couldnt give a rats butt about the JWs.Noone even knows what they believe other than the blood issue. A most inconvenient issue that generates bad PR for the org and, thus, will have to be abandoned.
  Actually Orgs like the Witnesses make me laugh. They decry the "world" as so wicked, yet they utilize the worlds laws to their own advantage. Eg: freedom of religion. The Witness org goes into court to fight for the right to proselytize in countries that oppose their activities, yet Gods "plan" is that the wicked world will persecute them and stop the preaching work.
  Haha. They contradict themselves.
• 

  collegegirl

  Jerome -

  While I am a new poster to this board, I am not a new reader (it's alnost been a year since I first started checking this out.) I understand what you are saying about people being so quick to judge and jump down other's throats. However, I also feel that this is to be expected. When people learn that what they have known as truth (for me, it has been my entire life) is not true, they do get angry, and when people try to justify the organization covering up or concealing things, it is also confusing. I am at the point now where I am starting to talk to more than one or two people about how I feel about the whole WTS situation... When I talk to these people, I tend to get very emotional and opinionated. I guess I act on impulse and pent up emotions, but I know that I am not the only one who does this. If this place is one where we an post how we feel about the WTS, then we should do so knowing that not everyone will agree with what we say. If someone does, as you put it, reply to something I have to say in an excessiviely judgemental way, I, as someone who chose to offer my feelings as opinion, should take the responses with a grain of salt. I would hope that everyone else would do this as well.

  I have seen some posts that maybe did not have to be so harsh, but if one chooses to reply that way, then so be it. It is just an indicator as to the personality of the poster...
• 

  OUTLAW

  People here are generaly pretty good.To bad jerks like you play games with people.TROLL!!...OUTLAW
• 

  JT

  Jeromes says:

  Why is it that when someone comes here for the first time or that when someone says something that is pro-Watchtower the members of this board decend apon them like a piece of meat thrown into a kennel full of hungry dogs?

  ########

  I agree 110%

  i have often raised this issue myself about just how Unwise this is to do. but i fully understand alot of the reasons why

  from my viewpoint,

  the vast majority of the former jw here were Hurt when they were in the Org, many from thier post were literally treated like dirt, esp the women many times - the org is not tOo women friendly unless she KNOWS HER PLACE,

  other were dealt with harshly by the "MO LARRY AND CURLY" CREW 3 dudes who work at Walmart by night handing out Cheese on Crackers and Super Elders on their night off,

  so when you combine that type of life exp with about 5-40 yrs OF being shafted and now family that doggs them , old jw FRIENDS they meet that spit on them THEY ARE SIMPLY PISSED AND not about to take no Shit from no one---

  when a Loyal Jw walks into this arena these guys are Pissed off and esp if the loyal jw got the "nerve" to try and paint something good about the org

  and with that combinations the former jw do just like your describe:

  "this board decend apon them like a piece of meat thrown into a kennel full of hungry dogs?"

  so with all that pent up pain and getting shafted in the past and often times still now by faily members still in

  it produces the reaction that one sees and it is so sad.

  the second reason i find is that many have failed to do any real reading on the impact of High Control Groups and how they affect the members

  it is almost as if they have forgotten "From Whince they came"

  i mean to expect a loyal jw to say anything other than what this guy said in support of the wt - is foolish to think in my view

  i TRULY hope that more former jw and i think i'm seeing it more today than in years past

  where they are better informing and preparing themselves to address and deal with the first time JW to sites like this

  i can only wonder how many folks have been frighten and ran back into the arms of wt to stay for another 3-10yrs perhaps before every venturing back on the net again due in part to some over zealous former jw who wanted to CRAM THE TRUTH down thier throat

  there are not many things that bother me now at this point in my life

  but this is one that PISSES ME OFF MORE THAN ANYTHING

  i think in the last few years of how former jw too many times deal with folks who are still in

  in my veiw:

  THE MERE FACT THAT THEY EVEN POINT THIER BROWSER TO THIS SITE --LOG ON -- READ SOME POST AND SEE THAT "APOSTATES" ARE HERE and yet still stay to actualLY POST

  in my view is an accomplishment in and of itself

  the org has so conditioned the avg jw that literaly Demons will come out of thier Monitor,

  it is interesting how so many former jw play right into the hands of the wt.

  you used the phrase; "hungry dogs" or let's say "FOAMING AT THE MOUTH"

  well the reason this is so bad is that wt teaches its members that apoststes have so much hate for "God's People" they are like foaming at the mouth and so when a jw comes here and see the reaction of former members all they can relate to is

  WHAT THEY WERE TOLD BY WT and from their prospective MOMMY was right -- she told me not to go to those old sites and she was right.

  it is much like when we conduct a bible study with a person. we tell them over and over that your family and friends with not want you to continue learning about jah and sure enough as soon as family and friends find out the person is studying

  because they lack the needed tools to help thier family AKA --INFO ON THE WT,-- They usually go off about the jw being bad and to the person the jw were right

  the person says to themselves ---they told me and showed me some scriptures that said they would hate me and sure enough it is true - THIS MUST BE THE TRUTH--

  and unbeknown to that family member or friend they have actually driven the person into wt quicker than they would have perhaps gone if they had tried another technique

  Jerome i gather from the past post you are not a jw so let me share somethings with you

  at one time jw were cold blooded when they knocked on the doors we would tell folks off and dogg them right on thier porch but we found that you catch more flies with honey and vinagar-

  so as an organization we changed our entire approach to become the most nicest folks you wanted to see

  (while we may have not been speaking to anyone in the car group that we were working with)-- when we got to the door we were all GRINS AND SMILES.

  SO THE Person felt at ease and we could talk to them and before you knew it they were jw

  well to me the very same techiques that we used as jw to get folks in the org are needed to get folks out and esp in view of how the avg jw is trained to respond to any critism of the org

  and so many damn former jw just keep on forgetting that these folks will shut down like an ATM MACHINE ON THE 3RD WRONG TRY

  we all read post after post of how JW are "Conditioned" Brain Washed, Programmed, Brain dead etc

  well if we really believe that is the case too many of us certainly don't act like it

  in fact we see if over and over again as folks try to SHOVE ISSUES DOWN FAMILY throats, THE UN WAS A PERFECT EXAMPLE

  i realize that for some that it may be what works but in my personal exp the vast majority it will not work

  due to that very programming of how to respond to anything -anti-wt

  the guy who owns this site Simon--- has so kindly given us a wonder HEADS UP

  IT IS CALL "NEWBIE"

  it let's us know that this person is new- they may not know the proper way to post and if they are current jw -

  it let's us know that 9 times out of 10 if they post it will probably be in favor and support of wt

  so why do we act surprise and jump the poor guys bones

  for the reason i stated above the --

  1. ANGER AND

  2. LACK of understanding the most most effective way to help current jw out

  in my veiw the first round of post should ALL

  1. COMMMEND HIM FOR JUST BEING HERE -- in view of the fact that if his wife or kids caught him here they are obligated to TURN THIER FATHER,HUSBAND INTO the elders for he NEED HELP -(spiritualy weak or sick) is how they are taught to view anyone who surfs these sites
  and we all know that- so the man should be commmended and

  2. then perhaps find out a few things about him-

  3. what made him risk posting,

  4. any concerns about the org that he can't talk about at the hall
  for we all know he can't,

  5. and on and on from there

  instead we often see the name calling and so forth

  personally with myself back in college i'm finding that too many times this site and others instead of becoming a place to seek out knowledge or understanding for the NEW LOYAL JW he gets shafted

  in my view we should expect them to dog us- they are taught to do that

  but when they see we don't respond back in kind then they are CONFUSED

  FOR the mother organization has taught them that we are mean and hateful, ect,but if we do the opposite then they are once again left wondering

  "The Org told me the apostates are mean and damn they treat me better than the PO wife's" smile

  but i don't know for me i think i'm winding down my days of net surfing and supporting boards like this.

  and that is the progression of things on these boards

  many of the old timers leave to be replaced by new ones

  i only hope that over time they continue to be kinder and kinder as they deal with current loyal jw for each month and year that passes the pain and hurt of the next group of jw that come here will indeed be more intense and deeper than the last

  for the org will continue to spit on it's memebers till they can;'t take it anymore and they will seek out what has been FORBIDDEN i only hope that they see a welcome sign that says:

  COME AS YOU ARE -EVEN IF YOU FULLY SUPPORT THE WT YOU ARE WELCOME AND IF THERE ARE ISSUES THAT Drove you here we can talk about it like adults

  THAT IS MY ONLY WISH

  jUST MY 2

  jAMES
• 

  Prisca

  Interesting points Jerome.

  Your writing style has really improved from your original posts. You have really changed styles in the few weeks you've been here.

  Any reason for that?