CONVENTION FALSE INFORMATION - STOP IT BROTHERS!

The Searcher

We are always urged to "make sure of all things", namely, that anything we preach or teach is verifiable and true. Especially when we are referring to the Bible.

At our convention, two things which came from the platform made me cringe, especially as one of the statements came from a regular and experienced convention speaker.

First; "Over a quarter of a million new brothers and sisters were baptized last year - doesn't this show love on Jehovah's part that he is allowing time for such ones to get to know him". (paraphrasing, but a generally held belief amongst many)

A false conclusion, not based on Scripture - Jehovah has set an appointed time he is not delaying it to save a few others. And on that note, consider this; it is generally accepted that at Armageddon, those who have rejected the ransom will be destroyed - forever.

Each year, approximately 130 million babies are born; each year approximately 1/4 million people turn to Jehovah; therefore, the reasoning is that Jehovah is prepared to destroy 129.75 million people for each year, in order to get .25 million more worshippers.

Wrong reasoning which has been put into people's psyche - clean it out of your mind, Jehovah is not evil!!!

Second; Why do very experienced brothers state that Korah "was swallowed up by the earth and went down into Sheol". He didn't.

Read the Scriptures brothers, before you misquote them - Numbers 26:10 & Psalm 106:17, 18.

Just a little p.s. for anyone recently joining this forum - check the Bible for "new scrolls" - the verse doesn't exist, and neither does the "given" explanation of it! The phrase was invented exactly 27 years ago and revealed in the June 15th 1985 Watchtower.

Do what I did, and just quietly ask an elder, "where in the Bible does it speak about "new scrolls?". (Rev.20:12)

The look of shock and then his silence, when I said that the Bible does not say what he claimed it did.

"Test the inspired expressions brothers".

irondork

Yeah... I came across the "new scrolls" thing about a year ago. Someone said something in a forum post that caused me to go look it up. Had I still been an active JW, I think I may have fractured my jaw on our new tile floor. Instead, I just got another one of those headaches, took some Advil, and wondered why I never bother to check on these things for the last... since I was born.

I need to look up your "Korah" observation. At this point, I'm sure I won't even need Advil any more.

wannabefree

I don't remember which talk it was, but I remember hearing the point made about the "new scrolls" at the convention this year, it must have been a point made in the outline. Here is the the second reference to the "new scroles" first mentioned in 1985.

*** w10 4/15 p. 11 par. 17 Holy Spirit's Role in the Outworking of Jehovah's Purpose ***
How will Jehovah use his holy spirit in the coming new world? That spirit will be the force behind the new scrolls that will be opened at that time. (Rev. 20:12) What will these contain? Evidently, Jehovah's detailed requirements for us during the thousand years. Do you look forward to examining the contents of those scrolls?

darthfader

Are they implying that "new scrolls" refer to the literature? I've heard those two words before - but it's didn't dawn on me as to their significance.

apostatethunder

Hi Searcher, thanks for explaining this. I think a lot of people just ignore most of the program they hear from the platform, between what they don’t understand and what they don’t agree with.

Numbers 26:10 suggest Korah was struck with fire from heaven with the rest of the assembly but Numbers 16:33 says they went down alive to Sheol.

About the new scrolls, I think I read it somewhere, but I can’t find it in the Bible now, maybe it was in the Apocalypses book and I just took it for granted. Never liked that book, so didn’t go very deep into it. Probably the same for most people.

Bobcat

Searcher:

I always enjoy seeing your topics.

Have you figured out what the [not-new] scrolls refer to? The verses below may give a hint along with the fact that these [not-new] scrolls are mentioned in connection with the scroll of life.

John 5:24-29

24 Most truly I say to YOU, He that hears my word and believes him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgment but has passed over from death to life. 25 "Most truly I say to YOU, The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to do judging, because Son of man he is. 28 Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. . .

On a similar note, the Society asserts that there are two different scrolls of life in Revelation. Here are the six verses that refer to a scroll of life:

Revelation 3:5

He that conquers will thus be arrayed in white outer garments; and I will by no means blot out his name from the book of life, but I will make acknowledgment of his name before my Father and before his angels. . .

Revelation 13:8

And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it; the name of not one of them stands written in the scroll of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered, from the founding of the world.

Revelation 17:8

The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. And when they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present, those who dwell on the earth will wonder admiringly, but their names have not been written upon the scroll of life from the founding of the world.

Revelation 20:12

And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.

Revelation 20:15

Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:27

But anything not sacred and anyone that carries on a disgusting thing and a lie will in no way enter into it; only those written in the Lamb's scroll of life [will].

So, extracting just the pertinent parts, there is:

"The book of life."

"The scroll of life of the Lamb ... from the founding of the world."

"The scroll of life from the founding of the world."

"The scroll of life."

"The book of life."

"The Lamb's scroll of life."

Notice the shared and intermingled characteristics. Also, always in the singular and always with the definite article.

Take Care

hamsterbait

Dont you think its hilarious that foretelling things to happen 2 000 years later, he still says "scrolls" not "books " (with pages)?

Why not "and ipads were switched on and the dead were judged from apps, according to their deeds."

The Witchtower god is certainly behind the times.

HB

baltar447

lol hb!

The Searcher

@ everyone who replied;

The Scripture in Revelation 20:12 is pretty clear and understandable, even to someone who has never read the Bible before;

"And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds."

There is one group of people, (the dead) and there are scrolls; but there is also a single scroll (life) which becomes operative after the multiple scrolls have been administered. The verse leaves no doubt as to their purpose - to judge the dead - not to educate them!!!

So what are these numerous scrolls which are used to judge? At 2 Timothy 4:13, the apostle Paul asked Timothy to bring the scrolls he had left in Troas. 'Scrolls' is translated from the Greek 'biblios' which means little books. Clearly, Paul was referring to the Hebrew Scriptures.

It doesn't require a great leap of imagination to deduce that if Jehovah is going to judge anyone, then his judgement must be based on what we did or didn't do, according to his direction. Not on things we hadn't a clue about!

And where will we find out what his will is??????? Biblios!!!!!

Diest

I dont have the CD can someone post the June 15th 1985 Watchtower article that was referenced in the OP?

CONVENTION FALSE INFORMATION - STOP IT BROTHERS!

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