The "Secrecy Policy”

by Celestial 58 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    The laws are not necessary a reflection of moral standards that have always existed (study the Inquisition) and laws change over time. Through the coarse of crime and punishment, a person is allowed rights to verying degrees. No rights would mean a perpetrator should be locked up forever, shot or subjected to torture and mutilation which is what happens to some of these people in prison.

    Morality is what the law of justice strives for. It does not always hit the mark, but this is it's underlying purpose. It sounds to me like you are making an argument for the perpetrator of Jehovah's Witness congregation that the secular punishment is too severe. This would connect with your question: "What if by our standards, we feel that a certain matter is, “uncorroborated or unsubstantiated?"

    Your organization feels qualified to determine whether or not a perpatrator's crimes are substantial and now you are saying the secular punishment is too severe. This is protecting the abuser. The Watchtower protects abusers because it's a "good ole boys" club and anyone who goes through their process of repentance is aquitted of their sins even if they go against the law of the land. This is against the Bible as well as the law of the land and is being actioned against by the jury of the Candace Conti case. The reason why the jury has awarded punitive damages is because of the gross negligence of this "good ole boys" club who protect their members to the point of covering up criminal activity. They will protect their closet full of skeletons to the very end. Defending the Watchtower is akin to defending Charles Manson. Both were egomaniacs that thought they could bring about the end of the world as per the Book of Revelation. Both are mindless doomsayers and have blood on their hands.

    As a doctrine of some faiths, clergy must maintain the confidentiality of pastoral communications. Mandatory reporting statutes in some States specify the circumstances under which a communication is "privileged" or allowed to remain confidential. Privileged communications may be exempt from the requirement to report suspected abuse or neglect. The privilege of maintaining this confidentiality under State law must be provided by statute. Most States do provide the privilege, typically in rules of evidence or civil procedure. If the issue of privilege is not addressed in the reporting laws, it does not mean that privilege is not granted; it may be granted in other parts of State statutes.

    Once again I reference to 1 Tim 3 and it's qualifications for people who the common man can confess to. Using a legal loophole to allow criminal behavior to continue unabated is immoral and unlawful. Theological confession has been abused by the weak minded since it's inception in the Catholic Church. That's why it's SO important for the people who hold these positions of responsibility to be tested and found to be upstanding citizens in their communitites. Within a Kingdom Hall the only people's opinion that matters is the congregation members and the pyramid leadership structure. The community that the Elders reside within are not even known by anyone but the congregation because JW's don't have non JW friends. There is no chance for anyone in their community to assess them and therefore they are not adequate community leaders. This is why they don't see the glarring immorality of going to a legal outfit first when hearing about a crime involving a child. Men of moral stature are required to hold positions where they will recieve confession. This is not the case with the JW's and it's the core reason why they are in over their heads with these cover up operations.

    In the end this group of company men have chosen to follow their blind faith of other men rather than assert themselves as protectors of children.

    -Sab

  • Celestial
    Celestial
    IF A CHILD GOES TO AN ADULT THAT IS IN PUBLIC SOCIAL SERVICE THAT ARE REQUIRED TO REPORT. Report the incident and let the professionals handle the situation. There are also laws in place to protect the reporter so they are not held repsonsible.

    "IF A CHILD GOES TO AN ADULT THAT IS IN PUBLIC SOCIAL SERVICE THAT ARE REQUIRED TO REPORT."

    That's not what this California case is about and I never said a victim reporting abuse constituted a “penitential communication.” If a child were to go to an elder for help and they failed to take any common sense approach, sure they could be held liable for neglect, regardless if they were mandated reporters or not. I'll have to check the case files to see if Candace Conti claims she told the elders about the alleged abuse as a child. You would think the first person she would tell, would be her parent(s).

    In this California case, two elders were called to a home meeting. The man's wife and daughter were present. Why did you think the elder's didn't report what was told to them to the police? It very well could have been that the man's wife was dead serious about what happened with her daughter and was on top of it like a hawk. If she wanted to press charges against her husband, that's a venue she would have pursued. At the time, his wife wanted to preserve the unity of her family and police involvement would have complicated this objective. Several months later, she changed her mind and reported him. I'm sure she divorced him. The 1994 conviction reveals, that the authorities didn't consider his propensity for abuse to be a threat level that required any forced intervention. How could an elder be held accountable for their actions on this matter if they weren’t mandated reporters?

    There's also another issue to consider. What if an adult starts having flashbacks of childhood abuse? There's two ex in-laws in my family that had this experience. I won't go into the details because they are too horrifying to share, but it involved sexual and ritual abuse of a child by family members. I don't know who these family members were because I never asked. I'd never met them. I didn't care to meet them after this. I don't know if they were ever Jehovah's Witnesses, but they certainly weren't at the time this abuse was reported,

    When the flashbacks started in 1993, my aunt's husband started acting really strange. He separated from his wife and showed up at our house to stay temporarily and started meeting with the elders. His condition progressively worsened in severity and when he attempted suicide he was admitted to a hospital. The hospital said it was the worse case of abuse they had ever seen. There was an announcement made at the Kingdom Hall that he was in a hospital and wanted no visitors. I was told it wasn't possible to prosecute the people that abused him because of the statues of limitation. You would think the hospital could substantiate the abuse and their testimony would be admissible in court. He was on full disability until 1998. I don't know what happened with him since then because no one in our family talks about him anymore.

    Are you suggesting that religious institutions should become entangled in litigation in response to these types of situations involving rank-and-file members? If you can produce a case of this nature regarding similar situations, I guess you can see what comes of it.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Rachel/AliceInWonderland/Spade/Confearacy/SuperSpook/Maze/Celestial..

    Are all the Same Person who keeps getting Booted Off of JWN..

    One of her Favorite Subjects..

    Supporting the "WBT$ Hide the Child Molester" Policy..

    ........................... ...OUTLAW

  • Celestial
    Celestial
    Are all the Same Person who keeps getting Booted Off of JWN..
    One of her Favorite Subjects..
    Supporting the "WBT$ Hide the Child Molester" Policy..

    There's only two active forums with some diversity;

    http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/

    I thought the purpose of this California case was to reveal the truth about Jehovah's Witnesses child protection policy. If you're going to reduce Jehovah's Witnesses to serial pedophiles or those that condone their behavior, it says something about you if suppress the speech of those that step in to the arena to respond to what they're being accused of. I'm not an active witness, but I know their not that. People callous to child abuse. If there was ever someone that was a victim of injustice related to this issue, it could inspire prejudice. It's not uncommon for people to become racist do to be being victimized by someone of another race. There's less logical construct behind something like that in comparison with an organizational practice, but the potential still exists for prejudice. Drawing on the suppression of speech practiced in their religious community as a reason to suppress their speech is a card to play. If that's how you want it.

    I was kicked off here because people used profanity toward me and I cussed back. Not for my for addressing this issue. The overall behavior on these forums can be intolerant at times. I think that's why you took a vacation from this forum.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    I know their not that. People callous to child abuse

    Honey Actually they are. How many times have you read my story? How many other stories have you read here? You seem to be pretty callous about our experiences. They are taught to use the rod of discipline. Well my mother sure knew how to use that one on ius and was proud of the callusses. welts and bruises she gave to prove she used it. And not 1 single JW who saw those bruises did a thing or said a thing. Never said a word. And the elders encouraged her to follow those scriptures to the letter.

    My mother was counseled not only to dispose of her sister and me after the sexual abuse was found out but also did the same to one of my brothers who was being abused by one of my mother's brothers - a baptized JW. Her policy seemed to be "beat em and toss em."

    I know not all JWs are like my mother but you would think in a cong of over 100 people someone would say something.

    Unless you have walked in our shoes stop pretending it doesn't happen.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW
    I'm not an active witness..AliceInWonderland/Celestial

    Yes we already know that..

    Yet you keep coming back pretending to be different people..Sometimes Male,sometimes Female..

    With a New Ficticious Story,for your New Ficticious Persona..

    To instruct us about Truth and Other Subjects,you know Nothing About..

    And..

    You defend a Corrupt WBT$ Organization you can`t be bothered to learn about,or participate in..

    It`s little wonder people get frusterated with you..

    The point of my post was to let people know..

    Your the same person who repeats this over and over again..

    Many don`t realise it`s you,because you always pop up under a new name..

    Even thou they`ve had the same frustrating conversations with you time and time again..

    They want to help people..Your a Waste of Time..

    Their time could be better spent with "Honest People" who have a Capcity to Learn..

    ........................... ...OUTLAW

  • coffee_black
    coffee_black

    There's also another issue to consider. What if an adult starts having flashbacks of childhood abuse? There's two ex in-laws in my family that had this experience. I won't go into the details because they are too horrifying to share, but it involved sexual and ritual abuse of a child by family members. I don't know who these family members were because I never asked. I'd never met them. I didn't care to meet them after this. I don't know if they were ever Jehovah's Witnesses, but they certainly weren't at the time this abuse was reported,
    When the flashbacks started in 1993, my aunt's husband started acting really strange. He separated from his wife and showed up at our house to stay temporarily and started meeting with the elders. His condition progressively worsened in severity and when he attempted suicide he was admitted to a hospital. The hospital said it was the worse case of abuse they had ever seen. There was an announcement made at the Kingdom Hall that he was in a hospital and wanted no visitors. I was told it wasn't possible to prosecute the people that abused him because of the statues of limitation. You would think the hospital could substantiate the abuse and their testimony would be admissible in court. He was on full disability until 1998. I don't know what happened with him since then because no one in our family talks about him anymore.

    Celestial

    Your own attitude explains a lot..... so in the first case you write about, you knew about the abuse, but did nothing to help stop it. You see, the difference between you and a person with a heart is that a person with a heart would find out who the perpetrator was and report them asap. You avoided it and burried your head in the sand, when you could have done something to stop any further abuse.

    In the second instance... the victim suffered horriffic consequences. So what did you and your family do to help this poor victim? Read your own words. No one talks about him any more. Shameful.

    That explains a lot about how pedophiles thrive in the jw organization and continue to get away with harming children

    Coffee . ~shakes head at the utter ignorance and heartlessness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Celestial:

    How about this policy?

    TELL THEM IF THEY SUSPECT CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE FROM ANYONE, GO TO THE COPS AND REPORT IT.

    The police have people who are actually TRAINED to deal with it, as opposed to lawyers who look out only for liability and deniability.

    Say it from stage as often as they remind us to follow the direction of the slave.

    No more JC meetings between perps and victims, where the polished liar of a predator makes the child a victim twice over.

    Really, this is not rocket science.

    Stop shoveling bullshit.

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    From Alice/Celestial:

    I'm not an active witness,

    Good, maybe your children won't be victimized by Derek, or Frederick

    but I know their not that. People callous to child abuse.

    Nice try at a straw man argument. The rank and file are not callous, obviously; their kids are at risk!

    It is LEADERSHIP that has proven themselves totally callous to the plight of children.

    Get your head out of your ass; quit trying to defend the old men who write this garbage policy.

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