by biometrics 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
This may sound crazy, but the best thing to whip out on a Johovah's witness is material they use right now
you can even ask them to whip theirs out and follow along
Most younger JW's will think older stuff is made up by Apostates
Even thought we have proof of what they said about 1975, not many have
that material on 'em but they do have their Reasoning books
The Reasoning book backs up that 1984 mag that lies to the older folk
it was published in 1985, 89
Great points in the reasoning book, I'll be using a lot of those. Does anyone know if they've updated the reasoning book recently?
A funny thing this brother said to me was "You know in Noah's day a generation lasted 900 years". It makes me wonder if the organisation has started to teach this?
I brought up the overlapping generation/increasing partakers issue at our family study a few days ago, and to my surprise, my dad had the same questions in mind also. Unknown to me, he asked an elder why the number of partakers is increasing, and got a point blank "I don't know". When I made it clear that the WT changed its position on what "generation" meant, I then proceeded to ask my parents, "would the holy spirit give you false information?" Also to my surprise, the apostate shields didn't come up, but rather got them thinking. Mom was quick to give an answer (typical), but dad was more understanding, saying that I had a point - "a source cannot give two kinds of water at the same time". I was dismissed with a "let's wait and see" response.
Here are a few questions I've got to get the ball rolling. I expect the conversation will take its own direction after this. Will keep you posted. He'll be over in about 5 hours from now.
1914 - Christ's Return Predicted?
Q. Brother X, last time we talked you mentioned prior to 1914, Jehovah's Witnesses were expecting Armageddon in 1914. Afterward they realised it wasn't Armageddon but Christ's (invisible) return? (I'm expecting a yes/agreement)
Q. Was the prediction about a 1914 Armageddon wrong? (not sure what response to expect here)
Q. I've got some scriptures I'd like to read if we can:
Matthew 24:36 - But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
Matthew 24:42 - Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.
Acts 1:7 - And He said to them, 'It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.'
Q. Are these scriptures talking about predicting Jesus' return?(I'm expecting a yes answer)
Q. So if the Bible says it's not for man, or even the angeles of heaven, to know when Jesus would return, how is it Jehovah's witnesses could make such bold predictions? (not sure what response to expect here)
Q. To my understanding it's quite clear what the bible says about making predictions about the return of christ, or even Armageddon? (not sure what response to expect here)
Keep it simple.
Sit him down with the WTCD and ask him to write up a list of Babylonian kings, showing which king reigned in which year.
Don't help him. Don't tell him anything. Don't express any opinion about anything. Don't let him off the hook. Don't discuss any other subject, or line of thinking. Don't do the talking. Don't answer diversionary questions. Guilt him for every type of diversionary tactic.
King list
King list
King list
King list
If you think you can't control the conversation with him .... uninvite him ... you are wasting your time, go fishing or to a movie.
Keep it simple.
The 'keep it simple' approach (i.e. using the JW publications to count the secularly attributed durations back from 539) is fairly good. However, the caveat is that the Watch Tower Society reports the durations for those kings that are accepted by secular sources, but the Society doesn't say that it necessarily accepts those dates. Hardcore JWs are experts at weaseling.
I prefer to start with Jeremiah 25:12 because it provides a direct statement that conflicts with their view.
Unfortunately, with many JWs it doesn't really matter what approach you take. Many JWs will either end a conversation or raise a strawman argument as soon as they get to a point where they cannot defend their position.
The meeting was posponed last week becauese of weather, but he said he'll be coming over tonight, or tomorrow night.
I prefer to start with Jeremiah 25:12 because it provides a direct statement that conflicts with their view.
Can somone give me a bit more info on how Jeremiah 25:12 confilcts with JW views.
Ask them to explain the overlapping generations to you.
Ask them why the WTS doesn't use the same concept of "generation" as Bible writers Matthew and Luke.
Whatever they say, have them then read from the Reasoning book and explain to you:
1. Why it is wrong.
2. Why the GB that approved the Reasoning book didn't realize it was wrong.
3. What event or events led the later GB into changing the teaching.
Jeffro:
Thanks for that awesome link. GREAT work.
~Binadub
I'll hilight those sections in the reasoning book before he comes. I want to keep it as simple as possible, otherwise I'll risk getting into a circular argument.
I want to keep questions very consise and I'll be insisting on answers.
Ask them why the WTS doesn't use the same concept of "generation" as Bible writers Matthew and Luke.
Does anyone have scriptures for these?
