Interesting conversation re: sexual abuse issue

by Doubting Bro 15 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  Doubting Bro

  I may be outing myself so I'm changing some minor detail but I wanted to relate a recent conversation over the sexual abuse issue. I was at a party, er, gathering this weekend and there were several folks that I haven't talked to in awhile there. So, I sat down at a table with several other guys and the conversation went like this:

  Bro 1 - hey, DB, how long have you been an elder?

  Me - I quit a few years ago, just decided that it wasn't something I wanted to do anymore.

  Bro 1 - laughing, I hear you man. Fair enough, but there's something that's bothering me that I was hoping to get your input on.

  Me - Sure, that's what friends do right? what's up?

  Bro 1 - Do you remember XXX? He was DF'ed a few years ago. I was shocked and so I stopped by his job and chatted with him right after. He said that there were some things from his past that he had to take care of but it's over now. So, I said, ah, it must have been some sort of normal thing like maybe sex (he was single). But, then I found out that this dude is in a max security prision for molesting a young child.

  Me - Really? Wow, I remember XXX as a kid but didn't know him as an adult. Wow, that's just crazy!

  Bro 1 - Yeah, I even went on vacation with him. It's scary because I would have trusted him with my kids. While that really bothers me, I found out that the elders knew about this guy and didn't do anything. So I talked to YYYY (a local elder that we both know, he's about the same age as me) and he said that when someone confesses to child abuse, they don't tell the congregation. Is that your understanding?

  Me - Yes, that's exactly how it works. I never dealt with this sort of thing but you're instructed to call the legal department and do what they say. We're in a reporting state, so you have to go to a pay phone and report the minimial info without giving you're name from what I understand from someone that had to do that.

  Bro 1 - Do you think that's right? How do you NOT beat the crap out of the person?

  Me - Oh, I think its really wrong and I agree with you. Hey, the 2 other guys in the room probably would say the guy slipped right? (laughing). I tell you what, I would rather be removed or even disfellowshipped before I would not warn parents about a molester.

  Bro 1- Yeah, I think that's a normal response, especially for a dad. But, are you saying that the society tells elders to not warn people. That's crazy. I just don't want to believe YYYY when he says that's the case.

  Me - It's 100% true. It's something I never agreed with. BTW - I run the megan's law registery every six months, you should too.

  Bro 1 - I do, blah blah about someone that lives several doors down that he's actually threatened!

  More exchanges but you get the drift. There were others sitting at the table that did not say a word. I didn't bring up the verdict because I thought that I may out myself a bit more with all these folks sitting there. But, Bro 1 clearly knew about it because when I mentioned Sandusky, he quickly went back to the JW that is in jail.

  This guy has a few young kids, is a great guy and is really worried about his kids. I think that the combination of the verdict along with his actual knowledge of someone that he GREW UP WITH, is causing him to be really concerned.

  I'm going to follow up with him later. But, I see a light bulb going off.

  So while some people are defending the org, there are loyal JWs that this is really causing pause.
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  FollowedMyHeart

  Wow! It's nice to know some of the dubs are paying attention and thinking. Hopefully, Candace's case will make the r&f aware of the WBTS policy on child abuse and this kind of conversation will happen more and more throughout the org.
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  Band on the Run

  May I ask if it is true that elders are instructed to call the Legal Department from a pay phone? If it is....I can't even articulate the outrage. Words are inadequate.

  Note that there was the correspondence in discovery. It would have been convenient if it were deleted.... I wonder if one of the elders was very honest. When I listened to the telephone call with plaintiff's lawyer, he said he had no problems with discovery. I recall he said that they were very civil.
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  Doubting Bro

  No, sorry the pay phone (do they even exist anymore) is what the elders were instructed to use when fulfilling their mandatory reporting requirement in states where they are required to report. According to what I've been told (never dealt with it personally), that's the advice given by legal.

  I would guess that the elders would likely call the WTS legal deparment from their house since that's when I would call the service desk during the time I was a secretary.
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  jamiebowers

  I run the megan's law registery every six months, you should too.

  That's all well and good, but think about something. What about the molester that's never been convicted but has confessed to the elders? The Gilbert Simental trial has already proven that elders do NOT always report to the police, even in mandatory reporting states.
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  Wasanelder Once

  Kinda reads like a drama from the convention. A little too perfect for my radar for what its worth.
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  metaspy

  I have heard the "pay phone reporting" deal from 2 different elders.

  I believe it to be true.

  The reason they have you go to a remote location is so that the police cannot just trace the call back to the hall or your house and ask more questions.
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  Doubting Bro

  I agree but what can you do? I will say that many born-ins like myself tend to NOT trust anyone. I agree that the elders should be disclosing that information and think the WTS policy is horribly wrong and protects the perp rather than the victim. They should do something to make it a little safer. I agree they don't always report and the WTS is to blame.

  Me, I can count on one hand the number of people that I trust with my kids. I worry about them at school, at the kids care center at my gym, anywhere that I can't see them. I treat the folks at the KH the same way as "wordly" folks. Especially guys, although I know women can attack kids as well.

  You can say that schools, daycare centers etc run background checks and get rid of people that do attack kids but what if your kid is the first one attacked? what if the first kid doesn't tell anyone (common problem)?

  Maybe I'm just paranoid but I think this is a much bigger problem than a fringe cult. Short of finding a genetic marker that shows people who are prone to this behavor and executing them, I'm not sure that we can eliminate the problem.

  Bottom line, trust no one.
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  Doubting Bro

  Kinda reads like a drama from the convention. A little too perfect for my radar for what its worth.

  So you think I'm being set up? This person isn't in my KH, isn't an elder or servant, has no connections and the other guys sitting at the table were no threat either. This guy has young kids and is really worried.
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  trebor

  Maybe I'm just paranoid but I think this is a much bigger problem than a fringe cult

  Of course child abuse is greater than a fringe cult or/and greater than the issue found within the Jehovah's Witnesses organization. The issue is not whether the Watchtower Society can eliminate or stop child abuse but what they do to prevent and report it. Clearly, their top priority is giving the appearance of innocence and protection of the organization (assets), rather than the safety of children.

  The Conti case, if you review the court transcripts shows the Legal Department advised elders not to report the incident to legal authorities.

  That is morally disgusting and reprehensible regardless of whether it is within the state’s “legal requirement”.

  Bottom line, trust no one.

  Bottom line is the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses at best is just like any other religious organization. The problem is that is not their claim. They claim to be the only true religious organization that has God's backing. They preach peace and security within their hallowed walls, Kingdom Halls filled with righteous, trustworthy people living within a spiritual paradise....What the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses has allowed is a paradise for pedophiles where they can hide and flourish.