The following is from the comments section of The Independent article about the 22 year old JW with sickle cell anaemia who died in England last week while refusing blood.
Maria makes AGuest sound laconic so I don't blame you if you can't be bothered reading it all but the JW cliches and lies are all too familiar. I'm guessing she is at the Thursday meeting about now so maybe she will respond again later.
Jehovah's witnesses never eat meat without blood drained from it. No meat is not drained of blood. When processed meat is drained of all blood. The liquid you see on meat and other animal products is not blood and if it was you would certainly know about it!!
Jehovah's witnesses have educated the medical profession about blood and the other life saving measures that have contributed to the unnecessary procedure of a blood transfusion in most major surgeries and operations because of their stand on the blood issue. This story has been sensationalised and you will find that there were other contributing factors that most probably contributed to the death of this man. Sickle cell anaemia cannot be fixed by a blood transfusion alone. Over the last 10 years Jehovah's witnesses have contributed to the medical profession because of their stand on blood in a very positive way. They have educated the medical system on cleaner alternatives to blood transfusions and have contributed to hospitals by buying cell saver machines that enable a patient to have major surgery without the use of blood and saving the patients own blood and returning it to patients body saving the complications that exist with blood transfusions. Other education has come about with the use of plasma volume expanders and the use of Erythropoeitin a chemical hormone which encourages the production of blood cells. This works very well in the body as opposed to the complications that come with blood transfusions.
We get the very best of care and the top treatment because we demand it!! The medical profession have thanked Jehovah's witnessed over the last 10 years and most competent surgeons are refusing to use blood in their surgeries and they have thanked Jehovah's Witensses for their contribution to the medical establishments in educating top surgeons and doctors about alternatives and there persistence to get the best of care for their Jehovah's witness patients. It is very rare now that a Jehovah's witness will die because of refusal to take a blood transfusion as there are now many alternatives to blood transfusions thanks to the example set by many thousands of Jehovah's witness patients world wide who have successfully completed open heart surgery. hip replacements, major losses of blood in car accidents and double kidney transplants all without the use of blood!!.
The public needs to be educated about blood and the alternatives that now exist without the use of blood which make this a much safer way of conducting major surgery and a cleaner alternative exempting problems such as aids contraction and hepatitis from a blood transfusion. The scripture in Acts 15:29 in the last sentence says "Good health to you" by abstaining from blood. You can see that Jehovah's witnesses are the most healthiest people on the planet because they search for other alternatives to save their lives and by doing so they have benefited not only themselves but also the whole of society by demanding better health care they have made it possible for many thousands and millions of other people who are not Jehovah's witnesses take advantage of other health alternatives that clearly benefit the patient and enable a better health care system for all without the use of blood, which is costly and time consuming and unhealthy!!
You should not be criticizing us you should be thanking us because you too will benefit from our stand in not taking a blood transfusion. Patients turn around time in getting better is much faster without a transfusion. There are no complications with the body rejecting a transfusion, it is cleaner it is healthier and thanks to Jehovah's witnesses I am sure that one day soon blood transfusions will become a thing of the past...."Good health to you"........
Mariah your ignorance of this subject is astonishing. Actually its not since you are only allowed under threat of shunning to read WT publications. You live in a virtual North Korea.
You don't even seem to be keeping up with your own publications. The GB have been very clear that the phrase "good health to you" is nothing but a salutation. Their refusal of blood transfusions is totally about a misunderstanding of scripture. Google the words 'cofty watchtower blood' to see why and go to the first post.
Of course you won't do that because you are not allowed and yet based on biased information you would let a child die. Do you remember the 1994 Awake cover that proudly displayed pictures of numerous children whose parents allowed them to die rather than take blood? And yet you say we shouldn't criticise you.
Are you aware that the WT used to forbid organ transplants resulting in many deaths then they changed their minds? Then they did the same about Factor VIII resulting in the needless deaths of hemophiliacs. Then all of a sudden Factor VIII was permitted. Now almost every faction of blood is permitted even including hemoglobin. The hypocrisy of the WT over this issue defies belief.
Stop trying to defend the indefensible its embarrassing.
I am not ignorant of this subject at all and it is very important for you to realise the benefits that Jehovah's people have played in their research on medical products and blood fractions and the expansion of synthetic blood products which have come as a result of the determination of Jehovah's witnesses to obtain the best of care when it comes to their medical situations.
Jehovah's organisation have always permitted blood fractions and have always considered this as a conscience matter and no religion or organisation can control my mind thats for sure I am one of the most stubborn critical person you will ever meet. I am an independant person with a brain who has studied blood and blood fractions as well as medicine and science and health and my ignorance is not well founded in your comments. You have completely ignored the comments I made to attack my integrity as an intelligent thinking person.
I am very aware of what my own organisation teaches and I am also aware of the artices you are talking about The reason why I am aware of it is because I have been faced with huge blood issues regarding my own health. I have never taken blood products even though the medical establishment literally forced it upon me when I had a potential dissection of the aorta. I have also had 3 brain bleeds and major surgery of the uterus all without the use of blood fractions or blood products.I was told I would die if I did not take them!!! I'm still here annoying everybody!! :). My interest in health and medical science has come about because of a terrible genetic disorder called Marfan's syndrome which has taken the life of my Mother, my sister and my brothers, none of which are Jehovah's Witnesses. If it wasn't for my own research into this disease I would literally be dead now as the medical establishments have made many terrible mistakes regarding the health of my family and have even resulted in the death of my sister Alecia Walsh which actually went to parliament. If you put Death of Alecia Walsh in your search engine you will see a major mistake made by the medical establishment which took my sisters life. She was not one of Jehovah's witnesses and died regardless.
We do not live in a virtual "North Korea" we are the only organisation in the world who are actually applying bible principles totally and completely. We are the only organisation that follows the bible strictly by the letter and the only organisation that gives their lives on behalf of our brothers and sisters and never fight on a battlefield and kill one another!!!Therefore that shows how un-hypocritical we are. We would rather go to gaol than kill our fellow brothers and sisters on the battlefield. Do not call me ignorant as I am the most un-ignorant person alive on the planet. I open my mind to many other studies including quantum physics and chemistry and biochemistry. That could hardly include me in a "North Korean type of mentality". I am completely allowed to explore health and science and music and the arts. I am completely allowed to further my studies and open my mind to many things and study what I like, so long as I do not break any of the ten commandments and so long as I put Jehovah's laws and principles in first place in my life which I am happy and proud not to do so. It is a priveledge to be called one of Jehovah's Witnesses as we are currently the most respected organisation on earth today....
I am currently studying medicine and natural health and the more i look into blood and blood products and fractions the more I can see a confirmation of the reason why we will not accept a blood transfusion not just from a religious point of view but from a medical point of view and from a human health point of view. We are not hypocrites at all.
Blood to Jehovah is sacred and it includes the life of the individual. It includes in it everything they have ever done in their life. Whether they smoke take drugs take part in sexual immorality and it includes the complete lifestyle including alcohol abuse and goodness knows what else and all pharmaceutical medication is all in the blood. Hence the many problems associated with blood transfusions from a medical point of view. I'm sorry but even if I wasn't a Jehovah's witness I would never take someone else's blood into my body!!! That would not be for religious reasons that would be because of the study I have done into blood management and blood products. There has never been a forbidden arrangement on blood fractions in our organisation and if there was so be it!!
One of my friends recently who was not a Jehovah's witness took a blood transfusion and died suddenly because of complications with the actual transfusion. She was a cancer patient and was told that the cancer she had needed a blood transfusion to provide her with more haemoglobin and blood cells which were diminishing quite quickly and the platelets were not being replaced. She died almost immediately after the transfusion because her immunity was already lowered and the stress of the blood transfusion and the body not accepting it played a major factor in her sudden death!!!.What do you have to say about that?. Is it o.k for someone to accept the advice she is given knowing full well her immunity was lowered and knowing the risks involved in her taking a transfusion and she died...but that is o.k so long as it is not for religious reasons??? She would have been much better of with plasma volume expanders and erythropoeitin which is a hormone found in the kidneys which create red blood cells in the red bone marrow and she might have had more time to find another solution which many of Jehovah's people have done so in the past and survived the cancer and completely recovered. All you do is attack the organisation and the watchtower what you need to do is do some research on blood and the reactions that can take place with transfusions. Some of those reactions are as follows: Anaphylaxis. Heamolysis.Metabolic complications, iron overload, bacterial contamination, Post transfusion purpura,Febrile non heamolytic reactions, Transfusion related acute lung injury, Septis, Aids, Hepatitus, Acute blood rejection. with this in mind is it o.k to transfuse at the cost of someone's life??.
If somebody does not want to take a blood transfusion that is up to them. If they want to take it that is up to them as well. Believe me some Jehovah's witnesses have even taken blood transfusions and they have been no better off because of it!!! What role do you have to play judge and discriminator. We are intelligent human beings and you totally misunderstand what we stand for. Our choice to take blood or not is our choice. We are not disfellowshipped if we do!! There is no Nazi concentration camp type of order you refer to as Northern korea mentality. We are free moral agents, at least we dont preach hellfire and brimstone!!
The people who have died who have refused a transfusion have died with dignity. Our faith and our beliefs are purely based on scripture Acts 15. 28,29 if we must die in this system it is only temporary and the new world has a better system that will provide us all with total health and happiness and we will live forever in a paradise without sickness or death and there will not be any issues about blood transfusions. You might consider this brain washing but in this system that is all there is, thank goodness!! There is not much hope for us all at the moment the way things are going.....goodness sake we need some hope for the future...What future can you give me?
Blood transfusions will eventually be a thing of the past. Now with the advent of new technology they can almost mimic synthetic blood through a laboratory. The 25th congress of the International Society of Blood Transfusions conducted in 1998... there were over 1700 doctors representing 83 countries. Many doctors represented blood banks, heamotologists, surgeons and aneasthesiologists. The main discussion was medical alternatives to human blood.transfusions...one comment made by Dr Prowse mentions "Synthetic clotting factors that have proved valuable to hemophilliacs...there are a number of plasma proteins that are established as the preferred therapy due to the concerns over viral infectivity of plasma derived products" A British physician emphasised the need of storing blood because of the hazards connected with transfusions...this is where the cell saver machines have come in handy so that the patient can have their blood going out of the body and filtered and then directed back in through this cell saver machine. Jehovah's organisation has bought hundreds of these machines and set them up in hospitals all over the world so that when Jehovah's witnesses need major surgery they can make use of these cell saving devices.....There are over 120 medical centres in America alone that are completely bloodless and over 20 hospitals world wide that are completely bloodless and have surgeons who are very happy to complete major operations without blood. Due to the education of blood and the instruments invented for operation on Jehovah's Witnesses....Synthetic erythropoitein has been produced because of the stand of Jehovah's witnesses. Again beneficial to all not just Jehovah's Witnesses...Even the US Military have decided to apply non blood management of patients...put that in your search engine and see what that says....We have changed the faced of surgery and have been able to offer not just to Jehovah's witnesses but to the whole public a cleaner safer non blood management for major surgery and even emergencies. This has resulted in quicker healing times better medical practises and less messy procedures and less costly to the hospitals and quicker patient turn around times, which the medical establishment and hospitals and surgeons are very grateful to us for.
People need educating and what ever you have to say about Jehovah's witnesses could only be negative because you have a biased opinion of their belief systems and that is predjudiced. You need to see the good they are doing world wide and there are very few deaths now because of the stand on blood. If there is most of the time it is not a blood issue, because all blood issues now can virtually be managed without a blood transfusion. We take transfusions all the time....We just get the cleaner ones!!! Superior treatment...because we demand the best of health care.....Please do not call me ignorant ever again.
Mariah - Non-blood management when possible is good but its irrelevant to our discussion.
Your religion's stance on blood is NOT based on medical reasons. If blood was 100% safe and there were no alternatives you would still refuse blood and let a child die.
Your stance is totally based on a misunderstanding about what the bible says about blood. I thoroughly understand the context of Acts 15. Did you read the essay I pointed you to - google "cofty watchtower blood"? Would you research the subject at JWFacts? I am sure you did not, that is why I said you live in a virtual North Korea. You blindly make life and death decisions for children based on limited information.
When you say "There has never been a forbidden arrangement on blood fractions in our organisation" you are telling a blatant lie. Would you like me to post the reference from the new 2011 Elders Manual "Shepherd The Flock" that instructs elders to DF anybody who takes a transfusion and doesn't repent?
Your justification for letting children die is that they will be better off in the "New System". Do you know how cultish that sounds? Do you know how many times the organisation have changed their teaching on when this "New System of Things" is coming? Does this sound to you like a valid reason to let a child die when their life could have been saved?
You said - "It is a priveledge to be called one of Jehovah's Witnesses as we are currently the most respected organisation on earth today".
In the words of Burns - "O would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us."
Maria Hensch • 32 minutes ago •
You are very presumptuous to think I did not look at the web site you quoted. You do not know me individually as a person or as someone who would open their minds to the information you have given me. You are also presumptuous to think that I am being mind controlled. That is impossible for someone like me. I have had many experiences with the blood issue and it may sound cultish to you to not break one of Jehovah's laws but there are many other laws that I wouldn't break either other than the law of blood and would rather die than break them!!!
. I looked up all the information you quoted surprisingly and because of the huge list of all the other things other than the blood issue you have posted it is obvious to me that you have been affiliated with Jehovah's organisation in the past and you are definately either an apostate or someone who is trying to manipulate the public to think that Jehovah's people are brainwashed baby killers....how ridiculous!!!. Your stand on blood is no longer well founded and you need to do your own research regards hemophilia which has had a breakthrough for Jehovah's witnesses through the information on interluken iii which is now showing great promise for all Jehovah's witness hemophiliac sufferers. If the advent of information does not come in time and people have died for their faith and it just so happens that some new information has come out then these things take time for discovery and yes unfortunately people die.But for us that is not the end of the world. That does not mean that the governing body was wrong. There are many people who will die for their faith and others who refuse to take a contraceptive and end up with 15 children that they simply cannot feed. Do you criticize them too. This is faith...faith encorporates a lot more than the fear of death which is obviously something you simply do not understand and something you are playing on to tap into the likes of those who will simply never understand it.
If you can quote from an elders manual than that means you must have been an elder in the past. If someone was disfellowshipped in the past for taking a blood transfusion than that wouldn't be the end of the world either I'm afraid to say. It would have taught them something.It also would have made them wait patiently and perhaps learn something from the experience if they had any strength of character or any relationship with their creator. I'm sure there have been many disfellowshippings in the past that were perhaps unnecessary and maybe that might have hurt or made a person feel rejected. However it is always a learning experience and those who truly love Jehovah will be blessed for sticking it out!!
Our organisation although not a cult as you say it is it is run by imperfect human beings and mistakes will continue to be made. It is unrealistic to think that any organisation on earth is not going to make mistakes and if you think everything should run perfectly then I think you come pretty close to it in Jehovah's organisation!!. Like I said before you are attacking the organisation for their stand on the blood issue and many other things for that matter according to your website. The prohibition on blood still stands and there is no other explanation for this direct bible command to "abstain from blood".You can manipulate it as much as you like and you can try and justify a different interpretation of scripture as much as you want to but it is as it stands...."abstain from blood" that is direct command and you do much better healthwise if you do so.
I read quite a lot of the information on your site and it is clearly highly manipulative....Is Gods name Jehovah? How ridiculous!!! Not much information on that one I must say. But their is tonnes of proof archeologically that Gods name is Jehovah....What have you done with all the archeological evidence that can smash your lack of information on that subject!!!
The only person whose opinion I am most worried about is Jehovah's and all you have done is insulted me again and been presumptuous to think that I would be in fear of reading an article that you quoted....there we go....Here is one Jehovah's witness who is not in fear of your little website and to be honest it is not that impressive and is full of deception and outright manipulation of scripture. You are focusing on this website because you know people who don't have faith could never begin to understand why people would choose to die for it. Most people build faith over many years and it takes a lot of research and personal feelings of closeness to a creator and life experiences to begin to have any faith at all and that is personal.
Mariah - You completely ignored the most pertinent part of my previous post - If blood was 100% safe and there was no alternative you would still choose to let a child die.
Contrary to your previous bold assertion you have now admitted that JWs are disfellowshiped for taking a blood transfusion. This means they will permanently lose all contact with their family and friends and yet you would have us believe that the decision to choose death over blood for a child is freely taken.
I was born into the JW religion and eventually served as an elder and reg pioneer for a number of years. I know the inside workings of the organisation and its teachings extremely well.
I know only too well how its possible to be so certain about your beliefs you would die for them and yet to be willfully ignorant of the other side of the story. It is mind control. More people have left the Watchtower never to return than your total current membership. Once you know the truth about "The Truth" there is no going back. If you are the sort of independently minded person you claim to be you will one day be where I am now.
JWFacts is an excellent place to start your research