Jehovah's Witnesses and magic ... is some magic okay? where do you draw the line? (page 2)

watson

I wonder how many of the "friends" have walked out of "Brave".....it kind of lures you in, then, BAM, there's magic!

blondie

Yes and No and No

*** w64 10/15 p. 639 Questions From Readers ***

Is it proper for a Christian to have a hobby of magical tricks simply for his amusement?

It may be that a person has a hobby of performing tricks that have nothing to do with real magic or demonism. It may be that one simply employs sleight-of-hand tricks or those involving illusions. So if one were merely showing how adroit a person may be with his hands, with no pretense of any magic, there may be no objection to such entertainment. However, whether a Christian will be involved in things of this nature or not is something that should be thoughtfully considered. One might start out performing simple tricks, but this could lead into practices that, knowingly or unwittingly, mimic the magical arts. One might duplicate by trickery real magical feats that are performed by demons, such as levitation, moving objects mysteriously, ectoplasmic materializations, and so forth. Such could lead into involvement with wicked spirit forces because it is playing at what the demons actually do.

Illustrating the danger of playing at anything that resembles demon activity is the experience of a woman in London. Her experience is described by Nandor Fodor in the book TheHauntedMind. This woman was fascinated by magic and hypnotism, and she had an extensive library on magical arts. The report says:

“I had a young boy staying with me who was a good hypnotic subject. I drew a magic circle, put him inside and sent him into hypnotic sleep. Then I commanded him to bring up the Devil! The boy writhed and cried. He was afraid. . . . Nothing happened in the first five hypnotic sessions. But the sixth time something did, and it frightened me out of my senses. In the magic circle a light appeared. Out of a luminous haze two eyes—as big as eggs—looked at me with an awful, penetrating look, a horrible expression. I asked hoarsely what it was. The boy answered—in a totally different voice—’the Evil that you conjured up speaks to you’. . . . I was so scared that I shrieked, ‘Go back, never come again! I will not permit you, I don’t want you!’ The light disappeared with a rushing sound, and things returned to normal. But I was white as chalk and for days afterward I felt that all the strength had gone out of me. The boy felt the same. Four or five times he felt that a power had tried to gain control of him.”

Toying with magical practices, even though one may be faking them, is highly dangerous, and is inviting the demons to put in an actual appearance, as they did in the case of a man who put on fake seances, only to discover that sometimes he actually performed mediumistic phenomena.—ClockWithout

Hands.

Sometimes those who perform tricks try to cause others to believe that they are doing something supernatural, magical. Thus they may, in fact, lay themselves open to real difficulty with the demons. Certainly no Christian would want to make any claim to having supernatural powers or leave any impression that he is a practitioner of Babylonian magic, which is condemned by God. (Deut. 18:10, 14) A Christian should also keep in mind that persons who know him and that he is a minister of God might look unfavorably on magiclike tricks; some persons might be stumbled. So the Christian may well find the pursuit of a hobby in so-called “magical” tricks is not advantageous.—Phil. 1:10; 1 Cor. 6:12.

*** g93 9/8 pp. 26-27 The Bible’s Viewpoint--Is There Danger in Practicing Magic?

‘THE air tingles with the aura of magic. Suddenly, a drumroll breaks the silence. All eyes fix intently on two uniformed men carrying muskets. Raising their firearms to the shoulder, they take aim at an elaborately robed Chinese magician. He holds a china plate in front of his chest. The muskets roar in a flash of fire. Instantly the magician falls to the floor, bleeding heavily. The bullet-catching illusion turns to tragedy.’ A faulty mechanism in one of the muskets caused the bullet to discharge and penetrate the magician’s chest. So relates the book Henry Gordon’s World of Magic.What a waste of the gift of life—all for the sake of the suspense, thrills, and entertainment that go with that type of magic. Is that how you react? Or do you feel that it is just part of the risk associated with staging such a performance? Whatever your response may be, when this illusion failed it was deadly dangerous. It prompts us to ask: Is there a more subtle danger associated with the practice of magic? For an answer, let us look at the roots of this ancient art.

Magic’s Influence Throughout History

From the dawn of history, man has been intrigued and manipulated by the mystery of magic. The word “magic” is derived from the name “magi,” an ancient Persian priestly caste that specialized in cultic activities. In its most basic sense, magic is an effort to control or coerce natural or supernatural forces to do man’s bidding. Egypt of the 18th century B.C.E. employed magic-practicing priests. Magic also played a prominent part in the religion of the ancient Chaldeans of Babylonia in the eighth century B.C.E. (Genesis 41:8, 24; Isaiah 47:12-14; Daniel 2:27; 4:7) This influence prevailed among the ancient Greeks and Romans down through the Middle Ages and right into our 20th century.

The different forms of magic may be classified in several ways. Robert A. Stebbins in his book TheMagician groups magic into three categories.

Three Forms of Magic

Mystical magic is “an expression of the occult.” It claims that “events or processes that contradict common-sense knowledge or scientific knowledge” are “true or valid.” Stebbins further explains that “mystical magic is the handmaid of sorcery, . . . witchcraft, alchemy, and, under certain conditions, religion.”

With exploitative magic, “practitioners manipulate or exploit the onlookers’ perception of reality for their own aggrandizement.” They know they are deceiving the public, but according to Stebbins, “they encourage those who witness the magic to believe otherwise—to believe that, as magicians, they have supernatural powers or special connections with beings who do.”

Entertainment magic aims to inspire wonderment through intriguing deception. It falls into five basic and overlapping methods: “stage magic, close up, sleight of hand, illusion, and mentalism.”

Is There Danger for Christians?

Let us first look at mystical magic. Mystical magic is invoked in various ways. For example, Satanists exist who practice both “black” and “white” magic. “Black” magic involves the casting of spells, special curses, and the evil eye to bring harm to one’s enemies. “White” magic, on the other hand, is intended to produce good results by breaking spells and canceling curses. Yet, both are expressions of the occult or the mystical. On occasion mystical magic is even called upon to attempt to get a good harvest or to win an athletic contest. Nevertheless, concerning this type of spiritistic magic, the Bible speaks frankly: “You must not look for omens, and you must not practice magic.”—Leviticus 19:26; Deuteronomy 18:9-14; Acts 19:18, 19.

Where does the danger lurk in exploitative magic? Palm readers, fortune-tellers, and faith healers, to mention a few, apply exploitative magic to advance their own interests. Are they not living a lie by their profession? God’s Word says: “You must not deceive, and you must not deal falsely anyone with his associate.”—Leviticus 19:11.

The Encyclopedia Americana states: “In some instances, magical actions may serve to compel spirits.” Do we want to invite trouble from the demon spirits by even indirectly dabbling in such a sphere? Given the opportunity, the demons can and will take advantage of us. They look for ‘convenient times’ and are relentless in their efforts.—Luke 4:13; James 1:14.

The master in the art of deception and illusion is none other than Satan the Devil. He has been practicing this art ever since his first performance before a human in the garden of Eden. (Genesis 3:1-19) What Christian would want to be like him? Instead, Christians are counseled to “become imitators of God” and to “subject [themselves] . . . to God; but oppose the Devil.”—Ephesians 5:1; James 4:7.

Most people, however, associate the word “magic” with entertainment. A person might create illusions with his hands (sleight of hand), having in mind that the hand is often quicker than the eye. There may be no Biblical objection to this. However, if there is a pretense of occult magic, would a Christian ever want to give the impression of possessing some supernatural, unexplainable power? Or if others are given the wrong impression by the “magical” performance, would a Christian not want to forgo such entertainment so as not to stumble others? (1 Corinthians 10:29, 31-33) In addition, there is the potential danger of a person’s being tempted to go further, into the deeper magical arts.

Therefore, when it comes to magic that is clearly connected with spiritism, true Christians wisely avoid practicing it. Beyond that, in all aspects of a Christian’s life—whether involving employment, recreation, or entertainment—he would want to “hold a good conscience,” a conscience that permits no offense against God or man.—1 Peter 3:16; Acts 24:16.

King Solomon

WOW, a real-live example of quote-mining before our very eyes.

Catch this one?

The Encyclopedia Americana states: “In some instances, magical actions may serve to compel spirits.”

As if the editors of the Encyclopedia Americana actually believe in magic, LOL! The words were probably pulled from an article describing magical rituals (eg voodoo) and the Encyclopedia was describing the beliefs of the practitioners, NOT saying magic is REAL. No one credible believes in the supernatural, as it's never been scientifically substantiated, EVER. NOT ONCE.

All the more ironic is the WTBTS writer had the audacity to mention the unscriptural nature of deception in the sentence before the one above:

God’s Word says: “You must not deceive, and you must not deal falsely anyone with his associate.”—Leviticus 19:11.

Par for the course for WTBTS to do that stuff, eg in the book where they were trying to disprove evolution, they actually quote-mined words from scientists and famous evolutionary biologists, making it out as if they didn't believe in evolution! There were names of biologists who are well-known within the scientific community (eg David Attenborough, who's produced marvelous nature shows for PBS), so it raised a red flag for me; however, a non-science-minded person would accept the words at face value, and not even realize the deception that was taking place: you cannot quote-mine from someone who doesn't agree with your conclusion, who disagrees with the very conclusion you're trying to prove! It's dishonest!

I guess deception in God's name is OK, since the ends justify the means? That's so slimy, I wish Hell existed, just so they'd be punished for the intellectual deceit.

rip van winkle

I have been using Magic Markers for years. Even to underline points in the publications.

And not one JW ever attempted to correct my behaviour!!!

ShirleyW

We had a Circuit Overseer when I was a kid in the 60's, Mark Overholt, he used to do magic tricks after Dinner for entertainment for the kids as well as the adults. They have dinner at a different house just about every night, so, I guess nobody reported him to the elders . . . oh, forgot, he's the CO, the one that eventually hears of all the complaints that the elders get.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

Hmmm, from Blondie's quotes, it seems there are three kinds of "magic", just like there are three kinds of porn.

Entertainment magic is like looking at Victoria's Secret or SI Swimsuit Edition.
Exploitative magic is like soft porn.
Mystical magic is the bad stuff, like degrading porn.

I suppose there should be an even worse level... apostate magic porn!

Band on the Run

I love the Mr. Clean Magic Erasers! Thanks for explaining the magic. Since I am no scientist, I always thought there were scrubbing demons inside. Is it safe for nonstick surfaces if it is abrasive? It doesn't look abrasive.

EmptyInside

I think most Witnesses draw the line at their personal preference.

I never heard of some Witnesses not allowing their children to eat the cereal Lucky Charms. Of course,besides the fact,that it probably isn't too healthy,that's just nuts.

Growing up,I was allowed to pretty much watch whatever I wanted,except for movies dealing with poltergeist,possessions,etc. I was too afraid to watch them anyway. I'm still not into that sort of thing.

NewChapter

I bought a Magic Eraser. It worked really well. But then my house became infested with smurfs. The benefit did not outweigh the cost.

King Solomon

I never heard of some Witnesses not allowing their children to eat the cereal Lucky Charms. Of course,besides the fact,that it probably isn't too healthy,that's just nuts.

Ah, the things that were forbidden in the name of not wanting to make God unhappy.

The reality is Smurfs, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, TeleTubbies, etc were banned by many, simply because parents thought they were dumb/goofy. It's the same situation that makes parents say, "the music you kids play today is noise/junk; it's not like OUR music, which was REAL MUSIC!". People forget that the parental units hating it IS an important element to a new generation of music (eg rap): it's not fun UNLESS they DO hate it...

Jehovah's Witnesses and magic ... is some magic okay? where do you draw the line?

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