What does faith mean to you?

by exwhyzee 81 Replies latest jw friends

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    I think that accepting something because one has testable evidence, does not take faith. Religious faith is not the same as the acceptance that some have in the scientific method. Having confidence in the scientific method does not require blind faith, because the method itself demands skeptism and accepting the possiblity that we could be wrong.

    Now I could display faith by asserting that humankind will use scientific advances to benefit the human family. But that would indeed be faith, and a dismissal of all evidence to the contrary. Scientific advances will be used for both beneficial and nonbenificial things---some quite wonderful and some quite brutal---some important and some mundane.

    But it is not about faith. A theory is always up for falsification. Faith is not open to falsification. It's very nature requires one to be biased.

    That is not necessarily a weakness. We need to have faith in some things to have some peace. Faith in people or institutions--to a degree. But when it becomes a weakness is when evidence proves our faith is misguided, and we are unable to let go long enough to investigate. A parent that has faith that their child will do right, may ignore the borrowed money, drug use, misdemeanors to hold on to that faith.

    I knew a woman like this. She was an inlaw, and we had an honest relationship. She told me one day, with so much faith, that her boys were so good hearted and always out to do their best by people. True to my caustic humor I replied, "And yet, they keep going to jail." She smacked me. Good enough. But her faith was misplaced. Evidence showed that her boys were NOT all that interested in doing right by people. Now she may have done a brain dance and reasoned that because they never physically hurt anyone, that made them 'good hearted'. And yet there are many ways to hurt a person. Stealing from them, conning them, lying to them all cause damage. So by her narrow definition, perhaps they were good hearted, but their victims may have a very different opinion.

    I do not have 'faith' in science. I accept the scientific method. Which means I accept, at this moment, that what we know now is less than we will know in the future, but I am confident that every discovery brings us somewhat closer to the truth----but truth in science? Well since nothing moves beyond theory, there may not be such a thing. But there are some things that are no longer questioned because the evidence is astounding. We don't question if we have gravity, cuz we are all sticking to the earth. We don't question whether evolution happens, cuz the evidence screams. The earth is a spere, we have pictures.

    The details, however, are always up or question and challenge. It is not a lack of faith to question conclusions---but it is the scientific method. The two are at opposite polls.

    nc

  • xchange
    xchange

    Just wanted to touch on this statement. It's the kind of statements that people use that for some reason irk me.

    ‘You put faith in your doctor... that he is prescribing the correct treatment.’





    I also note that a doctor also has to take an exam in order to get his/her license.

    So do I have ‘faith’ that a doctor is reliable even after all of that? No. I can also check his/her records with their professional medical association to see if there has been any disciplinary action recorded. Plus I can check other online resources and see if his/her current or former patients have made comments so I can get an overall impression of the doctor.

    Is that it? No. I can also make a ‘get acquainted’ appointment with the doctor and ask some detailed questions and get a better sense of their competency.

    But it gets better. I can even get a second opinion at any time I feel it’s necessary.

    I won’t get into checking online forums for medical advice because that’s just like asking for religious advice on this forum because you can get a million different answers.

    So in the end, I don’t put faith in a doctor’s decision in regard to some course of treatment. I make an informed decision based on other factors having nothing to do with some nebulous definition of faith.

    Besides, those that want ‘faith’ conflated with medical or health decisions are the ones who usually seek out homeopathic remedies.

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Yet even though "anything" may be true, we must not allow ourselves to become casual observers applying logical arguments to first "prove", and then "disprove", fundamental beliefs about the nature and meaning of life.

    Why ever not? It was by doing this very thing that we have progressed. Why would anyone ever advise people to put aside their critical thinking and just let go?

    "Faith is letting go of expected absolutes about life , it's source and meaning "

    I disagree very much. Faith IS an absolute. When we argue the 'absolutes' this same person advises us against doing so. Tricky, and full of red flags.

    NC

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    NewChapter “I think that accepting something because one has testable evidence, does not take faith. Religious faith is not the same as the acceptance that some have in the scientific

    method. Having confidence in the scientific method does not require blind faith, because the method itself demands skeptism and accepting the possibility that we could be wrong. ”

    This is true. In my life I have come to doubt religion, relatives, and people generally, including myself.

    What is - is. Faith is a luxury I can no longer afford.

  • cofty
    cofty

    justmom, I am poacher-turned-gamekeeper, there is very little I don't know and used to preach about christian theology.

    My problem is not a lack of knowledge about the bible's far fetched claims, my problem is that I now refuse to believe things without sufficient evidence.

    If you have any evidence that Jesus isn't a pile of bones in a pauper's grave in Palestine please share it. Preaching isn't allowed.

  • Bella15
    Bella15

    There is faith and there is biblical, spiritual Faith which is a fruit of the Spirit ... so in order to have the later you need first to have the Spirit. This is a very interesting topic that every Christian should study and research in the bible.

  • caliber
    caliber
    When we argue the 'absolutes' this same person advises us against doing so.
    Faith IS an absolute.

    I contend that absolute certainty as with proof or facts requires more

    A universal negative requires absolute knowledge (omniscience) whereas a universal positive may not require that.

    For instance, let’s say I am in a building with 4 rooms, and I have only been in 1 room. In order to say that every room is empty, I would have to have knowledge of all 4 rooms. I would need to know the entirety of what I am claiming to know.

    However, to state the opposite, that the building is not empty, I would at the very least only need to know about one room.

    So, in essence, any time a person claims that there is absolutely no God, they are claiming absolute and full knowledge of the universe

    (omniscience). If they are not claiming absolute knowledge, than they are going off of faith, but in fact, since they could never EVER know for sure

    that universal negative, then they are requiring much more faith than a person who claims there is a God (because finding out if there is a God may

    not require absolute knowledge). ..... so in this sense yes faith can be absolute without full knowledge

    Faith is an absolute ... lets go with your statement here

  • sinedie
    sinedie

    A theory is always up for falsification. Faith is not open to falsification. It's very nature requires one to be biased.

    One's faith is usually based on one's expectations. I sadly don't have faith anymore in people around me or God. Faith for me is almost like gambling.

    As THE GLADIATOR said What is - is. Faith is a luxury I can no longer afford

    NewChapter I really like your reasoning.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Caliber - This is a strawman argument.

    Speaking for myself I would say that I have carefully considered all the evidence presented for god and find it totally unconvincing. On the other hand I find a number of arguments against the existence of god to be very compelling.

    So in what way does my position require faith?

  • caliber
    caliber

    @ Cofty ....it seems often you find I have broken some" rules of Hoyle "

    strawman, slippery slope etc..

    Maybe you could just put the whole list up here for me to ponder more carely for future posts !! hee hee hee !!

    Seeing that you spend years both as a JW and another religion ( can't recall which ) there had to be something

    that kept you there, so belief of faith of some sort must have been present at least at that time.

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